Understanding the Social Security scam

[XXXNoahXXX]

nate, great thread. haven't read the case, but how does this

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They go into the general fund and later the Congress earmarks some of that money to fund the SSA.

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fit with the quote from the Nestor case

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AN AMOUNT EQUAL
TO THE PROCEEDS IS APPROPRIATED TO A TRUST FUND

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Doesn't that explicitly state that it goes to the general fund, but then an equal amount, not a piece, is put into the SS fund?

[Moseley]

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Doesn't that explicitly state that it goes to the general fund, but then an equal amount, not a piece, is put into the SS fund?

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Congress is required to keep an accounting of the monies collected as "ssi tax" and keep a record of the surplus, and the interest the surplus collects when it is given to the general fund to help pay the deficit.

That is why we have a 3 trillion dollar ssi "surplus" which is a total of all surplus monies collected and the interest on same, since it was given to the general fund.

The problem is that there is no way to pay back the 3 trillion dollars without raising taxes.

When congress reports they have a 500 billion deficit this year, they account for that deficit this way (figures are made up for purpose of example)

Payroll taxes 400b
Corp taxes 400b
ssi taxes 600b
total 1.4 trillion

total outlays (including ssi benefits which was 300b, 1/2 of what was taken in) 1.9 trillion

We therefore have a 500 billion deficit. But we really have a 800 billion deficit, because congress took the 300 billion surplus from ssi taxes to use for the general fund.

But that is not what congress reports as the deficit. They report it to be 500 billion.

They then issue IOUs to the ssi fund, which accrues interest. They also issue more IOUs each quarter to pay for the interest on the 3 trillion they already owe.

That is how Clinton supposedly balanced the budget one year. The deficit was less than the ssi surplus that year

[Copernicus]

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Doesn't that explicitly state that it goes to the general fund, but then an equal amount, not a piece, is put into the SS fund?

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Congress is required to keep an accounting of the monies collected as "ssi tax" and keep a record of the surplus, and the interest the surplus collects when it is given to the general fund to help pay the deficit. <font color="red"> Nothing is "given" to the general fund. Treasuries are SOLD to SSA. The proceeds from the sale pay the deficit like any other borrowing pays the deficit. </font>

That is why we have a 3 trillion dollar ssi "surplus" which is a total of all surplus monies collected and the interest on same, since it was given to the general fund. <font color="red">The reason there is a surplus (I havent looked at the number for a while, 3 trillion sounds high) is because taxes + interest &gt; benefit payments + expenses. Its that simple. </font>

The problem is that there is no way to pay back the 3 trillion dollars without raising taxes. <font color="red">Of course there is. The same way you balance any budget, cut spending (not SS spending, on budget spending) </font>

When congress reports they have a 500 billion deficit this year, they account for that deficit this way (figures are made up for purpose of example)

Payroll taxes 400b
Corp taxes 400b
ssi taxes 600b
total 1.4 trillion

total outlays (including ssi benefits which was 300b, 1/2 of what was taken in) 1.9 trillion

We therefore have a 500 billion deficit. But we really have a 800 billion deficit, because congress took the 300 billion surplus from ssi taxes to use for the general fund. <font color="red"> Use real numbers and then call out anyone who accounts for it this way, because they are lying. Social Security is an off budget item, and official budget deficits are reported without any consideration of Social Security. If a politician wants to lie about it, thats the politicians fault, not SS's </font>

But that is not what congress reports as the deficit. They report it to be 500 billion. <font color="red">wrong </font>

They then issue IOUs to the ssi fund, which accrues interest. They also issue more IOUs each quarter to pay for the interest on the 3 trillion they already owe. <font color="red"> Yup, thats what a Treasury bond/bill, CD, corporate bond etc. is, an IOU. so what? </font>

That is how Clinton supposedly balanced the budget one year. The deficit was less than the ssi surplus that year <font color="red"> Speaking of liars. This wouldnt surprise me, but I doubt he lied that blatantly. Link? </font>

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[natedogg]

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Cop, very good rebuttal sir.

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bocablkr, can you tell me why we have a social security program?

natedogg

[natedogg]

If you believe that it is moral to have a graduated income tax (as I do), then it becomes obvious that the Social Security wage tax should be eliminated and income taxes increased to cover the amount necessary to fund SSA. (ignoring the issue of whether the SSA should exist)

If this needs further explaining I can provide it but it should be pretty obvious.

natedogg

[natedogg]

Someone, anyone, take a shot at it.

natedogg

[Copernicus]

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Someone, anyone, take a shot at it.

natedogg

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Trying to anticipate and avoid as many of your nits as possible:

Social Security is a government administered social program that may be amended from time to time, the purpose of which is to provide a mechanism for individuals to be provided with a core defined Joint and Survivor retirement benefit upon disability or healthy retirement, and which is to be supplemented by personal savings, insurance and/or other employer provided retirement benefts to maintain a total standard of living comparable to pre-retirement standards, and which is to be funded based on payroll taxes sufficient to provide those benefits.

[natedogg]

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the purpose of which is to provide a mechanism for individuals to be provided with a core defined Joint and Survivor retirement benefit upon disability or healthy retirement

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So the purpose of the Social Security plan is to provide a retirment and/or disability benefit? Why do we have a program to provide a retirement benefit?

natedogg

[mosdef]

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Why do we have a program to provide a retirement benefit?

natedogg

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From the standpoint of the government, they have already make the promise to provide all citizens with adequate income. It's also true that, by the government's measures of "adequacy", citizens in the US do not save "enough" in their working years to have "adequate" post-employment income. Government gets caught in a game where they hand money over to people during their working years so they have "adequate" income, the people spend it all, and then at retirement they come looking for more income. It's easier for the government to manage this game if they have one program dedicated to providing post-employment income because then they can focus the rest of their energy on the employed citizens, which is who they really care about because their first focus in on manipulating the economy (where retirees don't play as big a part in production).