What`s all part of being a pro?

[DJ Sensei]

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but your roi in poker is going to be way higher than any investments isnt it?

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Yes thats kinda the principle i've been operating on for a while now. I'd love to get into more investments of all types, but I can't really justify it at this point when the money I'm earning is best reinvested in playing bigger games that i've got an edge in. I can definitely see the horizon though where 100% of my new income will be funnelled into non-poker investments (probably at a bankroll of about 200k, since 25/50nl is about the biggest game that runs frequently online now)

[king_of_drafts]

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Limon can you please expand on that, Im sure its something not any of us are doing.

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in my experience most wanna be pros start out thinking their gonna love playing poker forever and so they never prepare for that day when it all comes crashing down. so when they make their first 50k playing 5-10nl or whatever they just move up to the next highest limit that they can barely afford. so even though they are moving up limits their lifestyle isnt changing and they still have all thier eggs in one basket. this is bad for financial and psychological reasons. inevitably they go on a massive losing streak and because they were always playing right on the edge of what they could afford it buries them. now they have to work their way out of this hole and it becomes a horrible grind, many go on life tilt at this point. fully coming to the realization of how many hours theyre gonna have to put in ,they borrow money (from people like me) to make a quick hit and then really get stuck. a smarter plan would be to move up slower and invest on the way so you never have to do any one thing to survive. sooooo, instead of jumping straight from 5-10 to 10-20 buy a little triplex. instead of jumping straight from 10-20 to 25-50 buy a laundromat or a parking lot. instead of buying into 20 events at the wsop parter w/ someone in a business venture that you find interesting. instead of playing 70 hours a week play 40 and get a part time job you really enjoy (i still do golf club repair to this day). keep your ears open at the casino for opportunites, (one of my biggest f-ups was not partnering w/ co owner of an l.a. casino who was starting an offshore sportsbook a decade ago), pretty soon you realize that you never have to play poker again...then your poker game becomes unbeatable and you see the grinders in a totally different way. i guarantee you 10 years from now the "winners" who post on 2+2 will NOT be the guys playing 6 screens 80 hours a week at higher and higher stakes. it will be the guys who are writing books or software or starting "poker schools" and it wont be because they made a fortune doing any of these things it will be because they diversified early and stepped out of the boom/bust cycle.

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good post but I disagree with a lot of it. Many of the biggest winners online are ones that took shots aggressively knowing they had the humility and discipline to move back down if they lost. Often they did, and quickly clawed their way back up. Also, these are guys who have made 1-2 mil in their first couple years of playing and will probably have huge sums by their mid-20's specifically because they focused almost solely on poker poker poker.

The guys that are smart enough to perhaps have taken your advice are the ones that will escape the boom/bust cycle not by investing elsewhere but by getting good enough to demolish the games for millions and have a huge enough roll to pad against the variance.

[Gorilla Boy]

Ahhhhhh spaces:

in my experience most wanna be pros start out thinking their gonna love playing poker forever and so they never prepare for that day when it all comes crashing down. so when they make their first 50k playing 5-10nl or whatever they just move up to the next highest limit that they can barely afford. so even though they are moving up limits their lifestyle isnt changing and they still have all thier eggs in one basket. this is bad for financial and psychological reasons.


inevitably they go on a massive losing streak and because they were always playing right on the edge of what they could afford it buries them. now they have to work their way out of this hole and it becomes a horrible grind, many go on life tilt at this point. fully coming to the realization of how many hours theyre gonna have to put in ,they borrow money (from people like me) to make a quick hit and then really get stuck.


a smarter plan would be to move up slower and invest on the way so you never have to do any one thing to survive. sooooo, instead of jumping straight from 5-10 to 10-20 buy a little triplex. instead of jumping straight from 10-20 to 25-50 buy a laundromat or a parking lot. instead of buying into 20 events at the wsop parter w/ someone in a business venture that you find interesting.


instead of playing 70 hours a week play 40 and get a part time job you really enjoy (i still do golf club repair to this day). keep your ears open at the casino for opportunites, (one of my biggest f-ups was not partnering w/ co owner of an l.a. casino who was starting an offshore sportsbook a decade ago), pretty soon you realize that you never have to play poker again...then your poker game becomes unbeatable and you see the grinders in a totally different way.


i guarantee you 10 years from now the "winners" who post on 2+2 will NOT be the guys playing 6 screens 80 hours a week at higher and higher stakes. it will be the guys who are writing books or software or starting "poker schools" and it wont be because they made a fortune doing any of these things it will be because they diversified early and stepped out of the boom/bust cycle.

[Oki-Oki]

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Limon can you please expand on that, Im sure its something not any of us are doing.

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in my experience most wanna be pros start out thinking their gonna love playing poker forever and so they never prepare for that day when it all comes crashing down. so when they make their first 50k playing 5-10nl or whatever they just move up to the next highest limit that they can barely afford. so even though they are moving up limits their lifestyle isnt changing and they still have all thier eggs in one basket. this is bad for financial and psychological reasons. inevitably they go on a massive losing streak and because they were always playing right on the edge of what they could afford it buries them. now they have to work their way out of this hole and it becomes a horrible grind, many go on life tilt at this point. fully coming to the realization of how many hours theyre gonna have to put in ,they borrow money (from people like me) to make a quick hit and then really get stuck. a smarter plan would be to move up slower and invest on the way so you never have to do any one thing to survive. sooooo, instead of jumping straight from 5-10 to 10-20 buy a little triplex. instead of jumping straight from 10-20 to 25-50 buy a laundromat or a parking lot. instead of buying into 20 events at the wsop parter w/ someone in a business venture that you find interesting. instead of playing 70 hours a week play 40 and get a part time job you really enjoy (i still do golf club repair to this day). keep your ears open at the casino for opportunites, (one of my biggest f-ups was not partnering w/ co owner of an l.a. casino who was starting an offshore sportsbook a decade ago), pretty soon you realize that you never have to play poker again...then your poker game becomes unbeatable and you see the grinders in a totally different way. i guarantee you 10 years from now the "winners" who post on 2+2 will NOT be the guys playing 6 screens 80 hours a week at higher and higher stakes. it will be the guys who are writing books or software or starting "poker schools" and it wont be because they made a fortune doing any of these things it will be because they diversified early and stepped out of the boom/bust cycle.

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good post but I disagree with a lot of it. Many of the biggest winners online are ones that took shots aggressively knowing they had the humility and discipline to move back down if they lost. Often they did, and quickly clawed their way back up. Also, these are guys who have made 1-2 mil in their first couple years of playing and will probably have huge sums by their mid-20's specifically because they focused almost solely on poker poker poker.

The guys that are smart enough to perhaps have taken your advice are the ones that will escape the boom/bust cycle not by investing elsewhere but by getting good enough to demolish the games for millions and have a huge enough roll to pad against the variance.

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Yeah but there are not too many ppl that are good enough to make this money. Or have the dedication and smarts to survive at High Stakes for a number of years.

Yet there alot of ppl on these boards that will make between 200 and 300k this year. I think limons advice is mostly directed and applicable to them. The superstars of the online world are few and far between but there are alot of semi-skilled guys making some fairly good money.

[Lefort]

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in my experience most wanna be pros start out thinking their gonna love playing poker forever and so they never prepare for that day when it all comes crashing down. so when they make their first 50k playing 5-10nl or whatever they just move up to the next highest limit that they can barely afford. so even though they are moving up limits their lifestyle isnt changing and they still have all thier eggs in one basket. this is bad for financial and psychological reasons. inevitably they go on a massive losing streak and because they were always playing right on the edge of what they could afford it buries them. now they have to work their way out of this hole and it becomes a horrible grind, many go on life tilt at this point. fully coming to the realization of how many hours theyre gonna have to put in ,they borrow money (from people like me) to make a quick hit and then really get stuck. a smarter plan would be to move up slower and invest on the way so you never have to do any one thing to survive. sooooo, instead of jumping straight from 5-10 to 10-20 buy a little triplex. instead of jumping straight from 10-20 to 25-50 buy a laundromat or a parking lot. instead of buying into 20 events at the wsop parter w/ someone in a business venture that you find interesting. instead of playing 70 hours a week play 40 and get a part time job you really enjoy (i still do golf club repair to this day). keep your ears open at the casino for opportunites, (one of my biggest f-ups was not partnering w/ co owner of an l.a. casino who was starting an offshore sportsbook a decade ago), pretty soon you realize that you never have to play poker again...then your poker game becomes unbeatable and you see the grinders in a totally different way. i guarantee you 10 years from now the "winners" who post on 2+2 will NOT be the guys playing 6 screens 80 hours a week at higher and higher stakes. it will be the guys who are writing books or software or starting "poker schools" and it wont be because they made a fortune doing any of these things it will be because they diversified early and stepped out of the boom/bust cycle.

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Thanks for putting it into words. Pretty much my philosophy since the summer, hence why I've started taking classes and studying about real estate/business/finance/stock market/etc.. The points that people make about making more in the present with poker could potentially be true, but I value the real-life experiences of proceeding with other ventures more valuable than the potential money I'm "missing out on" at poker. I'd rather be a well-rounded young millionaire than one that spent the last 2 years in front of a computer mastering a single game. I'm looking to be more of a jack-of-all-trades... but thats just me.

[Oki-Oki]

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in my experience most wanna be pros start out thinking their gonna love playing poker forever and so they never prepare for that day when it all comes crashing down. so when they make their first 50k playing 5-10nl or whatever they just move up to the next highest limit that they can barely afford. so even though they are moving up limits their lifestyle isnt changing and they still have all thier eggs in one basket. this is bad for financial and psychological reasons. inevitably they go on a massive losing streak and because they were always playing right on the edge of what they could afford it buries them. now they have to work their way out of this hole and it becomes a horrible grind, many go on life tilt at this point. fully coming to the realization of how many hours theyre gonna have to put in ,they borrow money (from people like me) to make a quick hit and then really get stuck. a smarter plan would be to move up slower and invest on the way so you never have to do any one thing to survive. sooooo, instead of jumping straight from 5-10 to 10-20 buy a little triplex. instead of jumping straight from 10-20 to 25-50 buy a laundromat or a parking lot. instead of buying into 20 events at the wsop parter w/ someone in a business venture that you find interesting. instead of playing 70 hours a week play 40 and get a part time job you really enjoy (i still do golf club repair to this day). keep your ears open at the casino for opportunites, (one of my biggest f-ups was not partnering w/ co owner of an l.a. casino who was starting an offshore sportsbook a decade ago), pretty soon you realize that you never have to play poker again...then your poker game becomes unbeatable and you see the grinders in a totally different way. i guarantee you 10 years from now the "winners" who post on 2+2 will NOT be the guys playing 6 screens 80 hours a week at higher and higher stakes. it will be the guys who are writing books or software or starting "poker schools" and it wont be because they made a fortune doing any of these things it will be because they diversified early and stepped out of the boom/bust cycle.

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Thanks for putting it into words. Pretty much my philosophy since the summer, hence why I've started taking classes and studying about real estate/business/finance/stock market/etc.. The points that people make about making more in the present with poker could potentially be true, but I value the real-life experiences of proceeding with other ventures more valuable than the potential money I'm "missing out on" at poker. I'd rather be a well-rounded young millionaire than one that spent the last 2 years in front of a computer mastering a single game. I'm looking to be more of a jack-of-all-trades... but thats just me.

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Also I doubt alot of Midstakes and higher pros are logging 30+ hour weeks on a consistant basis. We all have a ton of free time if we so choose to work on outside investments etc without sacrificing any play. But the whole problem is most of us chose poker because its fairly easy money and we are lazy for the most part.

[DanielDayLewis]

I disagree that most 2+2ers are lazy.

I think to get good enough to beat HS games you really need to be self motivated and constantly be analyzing your game. Right from day 1 just about everyone is telling you how you can't make a living "gambling" and you pretty much need to study your ass off on your own. Most HS players go/went to top Universities also it seems.

I agree with limon on a lot of his post. I think one determining factor on how many hours to put in is how you feel the games will be in 3-10 years. If you feel poker will always be there to fall back on then take your time and explore everything. If you feel that the games will be dead by 2010 then play like a madman so you can get the type of financial security you will need later when u are a fish in another field.

[recallme]

Lately i was sitting at 2 tables with 2 fish to mz left and on the other table 1 was siiting 2 left from me.

I was sick of playing, because of playing mz best poker ever, but still beind down 3,5Bi. I played really gorgeuos.

But i left. Is this plain unprofesionel?

[ipokeder]

lolllllllllllllll

[AcTiOnJaCsOn]

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in my experience most wanna be pros start out thinking their gonna love playing poker forever and so they never prepare for that day when it all comes crashing down. so when they make their first 50k playing 5-10nl or whatever they just move up to the next highest limit that they can barely afford. so even though they are moving up limits their lifestyle isnt changing and they still have all thier eggs in one basket. this is bad for financial and psychological reasons. inevitably they go on a massive losing streak and because they were always playing right on the edge of what they could afford it buries them. now they have to work their way out of this hole and it becomes a horrible grind, many go on life tilt at this point. fully coming to the realization of how many hours theyre gonna have to put in ,they borrow money (from people like me) to make a quick hit and then really get stuck. a smarter plan would be to move up slower and invest on the way so you never have to do any one thing to survive. sooooo, instead of jumping straight from 5-10 to 10-20 buy a little triplex. instead of jumping straight from 10-20 to 25-50 buy a laundromat or a parking lot. instead of buying into 20 events at the wsop parter w/ someone in a business venture that you find interesting. instead of playing 70 hours a week play 40 and get a part time job you really enjoy (i still do golf club repair to this day). keep your ears open at the casino for opportunites, (one of my biggest f-ups was not partnering w/ co owner of an l.a. casino who was starting an offshore sportsbook a decade ago), pretty soon you realize that you never have to play poker again...then your poker game becomes unbeatable and you see the grinders in a totally different way. i guarantee you 10 years from now the "winners" who post on 2+2 will NOT be the guys playing 6 screens 80 hours a week at higher and higher stakes. it will be the guys who are writing books or software or starting "poker schools" and it wont be because they made a fortune doing any of these things it will be because they diversified early and stepped out of the boom/bust cycle.

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Thanks for putting it into words. Pretty much my philosophy since the summer, hence why I've started taking classes and studying about real estate/business/finance/stock market/etc.. The points that people make about making more in the present with poker could potentially be true, but I value the real-life experiences of proceeding with other ventures more valuable than the potential money I'm "missing out on" at poker. I'd rather be a well-rounded young millionaire than one that spent the last 2 years in front of a computer mastering a single game. I'm looking to be more of a jack-of-all-trades... but thats just me.

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Also I doubt alot of Midstakes and higher pros are logging 30+ hour weeks on a consistant basis. We all have a ton of free time if we so choose to work on outside investments etc without sacrificing any play. But the whole problem is most of us chose poker because its fairly easy money and we are lazy for the most part.

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lol so true