Cheating in Online Poker

[AC-Cobra]

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EC10, Ansky, and Noah, your opinion in general is very valuable to me but not without further explanation as well as alternatives for dealing with what is apparently the very large scope of this problem. Why do you think publishing an article to make people aware of the extent of online cheating, and what people can do to prevent it, is a bad idea? I sure hope it's not for the reason that I suspect.

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Because whether or not you want to believe it, it's impossible to stop. And at the same time, driving people away from the game or bringing bad press to the game is damaging to us all.

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I am not surprised at all that your position is to do whatever is best for your own bottom line. Someday, hopefully, with some maturity, you will understand there are more important things then $EV.

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Of course there are, but why would anyone want to take steps to undermine their "industry" when they are making a good living off of it (and not cheating themselves)?

[willie]

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EC10, Ansky, and Noah, your opinion in general is very valuable to me but not without further explanation as well as alternatives for dealing with what is apparently the very large scope of this problem. Why do you think publishing an article to make people aware of the extent of online cheating, and what people can do to prevent it, is a bad idea? I sure hope it's not for the reason that I suspect.

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Because whether or not you want to believe it, it's impossible to stop. And at the same time, driving people away from the game or bringing bad press to the game is damaging to us all.

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I am not surprised at all that your position is to do whatever is best for your own bottom line. Someday, hopefully, with some maturity, you will understand there are more important things then $EV.

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his position is based in reality and truth though. While you make it sound like it's a selfish stance- gobbo is just stating a fact.

[0evg0]

Paul,

How much of a difference is there really between your moral argument with Goboo and the moral argument between a vegan and someone who sympathizes with the current meat-processing industry?

Sure, I think it's kind of [censored] up the way livestock, chickens, pigs, etc. are treated, but in all honesty there is absolutely nothing that can be done without an incredibly massive attack that will end up harming millions in various ways. Basically, it's impossible to lift a rock so heavy without killing too many, even if it's a noble enterprise.

[rothko]

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Paul,

How much of a difference is there really between your moral argument with Goboo and the moral argument between a vegan and someone who sympathizes with the current meat-processing industry?

Sure, I think it's kind of [censored] up the way livestock, chickens, pigs, etc. are treated, but in all honesty there is absolutely nothing that can be done without an incredibly massive attack that will end up harming millions in various ways. Basically, it's impossible to lift a rock so heavy without killing too many, even if it's a noble enterprise.

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0evg0, this is not analogous.

[gobbomom]

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EC10, Ansky, and Noah, your opinion in general is very valuable to me but not without further explanation as well as alternatives for dealing with what is apparently the very large scope of this problem. Why do you think publishing an article to make people aware of the extent of online cheating, and what people can do to prevent it, is a bad idea? I sure hope it's not for the reason that I suspect.

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Because whether or not you want to believe it, it's impossible to stop. And at the same time, driving people away from the game or bringing bad press to the game is damaging to us all.

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I am not surprised at all that your position is to do whatever is best for your own bottom line. Someday, hopefully, with some maturity, you will understand there are more important things then $EV.

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I knew you had developed the opinion that Jimmy sanctions/ approves of online cheating based on your replies in the last thread. I think you have completely misinterpreted his posts and have developed a biased opinion based on this misinterpretation. Presuming his opinions on the subject are based on a +EV situation for him is very insulting and completely wrong. Additionally I think I'm a much better judge of his maturity level, character, and values, and I think you owe him an apology.

[ianisakson]

I have an idea for all you people who say "it's impossible to stop." Quit saying that, it is possible to stop, but we haven't figured it out yet. Instead of deciding that there is nothing you can do, you're helpless, and dealing with it is the only option, spend some time thinking of ways to counteract these problems.

I predict that within 18 months that online poker as we know it will either have dealt with this problem or cease to exist as a profitable career for many of us. It is up to us to keep our jobs safe as poker players, therefore it is our jobs to combat multiaccounters so we can invite fish to come play with us safely and securely.

I think the key will lie in the way accounts are set up, find a way that only the true "owner" of the account can sign into the account, whether it be a SSN as a password or something similar like that.

To UCLA, I think writing an article about cheating in online poker is a bad idea. I think you should focus on writing about how to combat online cheating and share it with the 2+2 and p5's communities and poker websites. The most important thing we can do at this point in time is to keep our 'fight' silent in regards to keeping the fish uninformed to cheating. After all, they are the most important part of online poker and scaring them off would likely result in online poker as we know it to cease.

[0evg0]

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Paul,

How much of a difference is there really between your moral argument with Goboo and the moral argument between a vegan and someone who sympathizes with the current meat-processing industry?

Sure, I think it's kind of [censored] up the way livestock, chickens, pigs, etc. are treated, but in all honesty there is absolutely nothing that can be done without an incredibly massive attack that will end up harming millions in various ways. Basically, it's impossible to lift a rock so heavy without killing too many, even if it's a noble enterprise.

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0evg0, this is not analogous.

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If you don't see how this is at least similar, you're not trying very hard.

[0evg0]

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To UCLA, I think writing an article about cheating in online poker is a bad idea. I think you should focus on writing about how to combat online cheating and share it with the 2+2 and p5's communities and poker websites. The most important thing we can do at this point in time is to keep our 'fight' silent in regards to keeping the fish uninformed to cheating. After all, they are the most important part of online poker and scaring them off would likely result in online poker as we know it to cease.

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And your ignorance shows through.

The vast majority of these sacred fish we must not let this knowledge spread to regularly frequent 2+2, P5s, etc.

You think the vast majority of 2+2 isn't made up of losing players?

Haven't you ever seen the 500 post threads about "bots playing 200NL" or [censored] like that?

[uclabruinz]

I am all for more fish coming to the games, but not at the expense of my integrity or the integrity of the game. Fish should be fully informed about what they are getting themselves into, regardless of the affect that may have on Gobbo's (or anyone's) $EV. It's really not a grey issue unless you put money over ethics.

At any rate, in the long run the best thing to do is publically deal with the cheating issue, and address it the best way possible. Sweeping it under the rug, while possibly putting more $$$ in some pockets over the short term, is clearly not the best long-term solution.

[adanthar]

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I predict that within 18 months that online poker as we know it will either have dealt with this problem or cease to exist as a profitable career for many of us.

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I predict you're wrong.

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therefore it is our jobs to combat multiaccounters so we can invite fish to come play with us safely and securely.

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okay...

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I think the key will lie in the way accounts are set up, find a way that only the true "owner" of the account can sign into the account, whether it be a SSN as a password or something similar like that.

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yeah, the fish would be really happy to give their SSN to sites, especially when there's a thread *on 2+2* every week about how handing over a driver's license to cash out is so horrible.

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ucla: publicizing this in the 'mainstream' is the wrong way to go. think of it this way: the people whom it directly affects more than 99% of the rest of the poker world are the marginal winners at the 215's, most of whom are right here at 2+2/p5's/wherever and already know about it. nobody below that should care, and the big losers are relatively unaffected since they have no EV to lose. all you'd be doing is making fish that would never come across a multiaccounter in years of pokering at the 33's not want to deposit.

if you want to find and out multiaccounters, by all means, find and out multiaccounters. what does that have to do with writing an article to people that will never see anyone multiaccount? no idea.