What is the goal of education?

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Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school - Albert Einstein

[Zygote]

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You must have been unfortunate to attend some very poor schools because virtually every response of yours is wrong.

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K-8 went to the best public school in the county, went through the "gifted kids" program, and went to private schools after that.

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by giving them the tools to learn whatever skills are eventually needed.

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If this were true, schools would focus on learning techniques rather than learning material. In fact, if they actually taught learning techniques well, they wouldn't need to use rigid curriculums.

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I stipulated they are equally qualified. Reading comprehension problem?

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You stipulated something that cannot happen. The mere fact that the potential employees are different in personality will cause the interviewer to have preference.

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As I said, its unfortunate that you went to some poor schools.

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Ah, condescent as an argument. I'm finished with you, right after I returned the favor.

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The material I studied in high school was equivalent to or more advanced than the college courses they replaced.

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I'm sorry that you went to such a poor college.

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Just in the top 10 of science and engineering undergraduate schools in USNWR's annual survey. Why dont you try one of those free economics threads you threatened to post? Youre not even treading water on education.

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Copernicus, the case is probably that you went to a highschool that was lucky enough to have great opportinities and good teachers with reasonable teaching methods. However, the average person that goes to a public school in north america does not have these opportunities and is exposed to 10-15 bad teachers for every good teacher he/she meets. My grade 11 math teacher started the year by giving a speech about him being refered to as an [censored] by past students and how he remembers nothing from college and will learn through the textbook as we go along. My grade 12 math teacher was a gym teacher who ended up being virtually tutored by an east-asian student in the class just so he could grasp the material enough to mark the tests. I got mid 90's in HS calculus but by the time i got to college i couldn't take a derivative or explain to you what a derivative was.

[Copernicus]

I agree, there is danger in using anecdotal personal experiences to extrapolate, especially when both I and my son went through schools in relatively affluent areas where college was the goal of 80% or more of the students.

What anecdotal evidence does show is that it is possible for the system to work as it is intended, and that a failed education system is not inevitable when it is government mandated/run. That is the tone of many of the posts, especially from the "government never does anything right" crowd.

I dont believe that any education structure will achieve outstanding results without parental involvement however. That, to me, is the greatest change and the greatest failure of the education system over the last (gulp) 40 years.

[CarpeDiem]

If the parent involvement is lacking is the educational system to blame then?

[hmkpoker]

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What anecdotal evidence does show is that it is possible for the system to work as it is intended, and that a failed education system is not inevitable when it is government mandated/run. That is the tone of many of the posts, especially from the "government never does anything right" crowd.

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Many of us support school vouchers to cover early education. It gives an element of choice to those who would prefer to send their kids to private school. Just wondering where you stand on the issue.

[tolbiny]

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I agree, there is danger in using anecdotal personal experiences to extrapolate, especially when both I and my son went through schools in relatively affluent areas where college was the goal of 80% or more of the students.

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Exactly. Why did that 80% want to go to college?

[Copernicus]

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If the parent involvement is lacking is the educational system to blame then?

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It isnt totally to blame imo, no. Whether and the extent to which it is to blame is obscured by the lack of parental involvement. The answer can (and maybe has been?) partially be found in average to lower income districts where there is extensive parental involvement (e.g. lower income Asian communities). If the educational success there is greater than more affluent communities without parental involvement then there is some evidence that its not totally the system.


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Many of us support school vouchers to cover early education. It gives an element of choice to those who would prefer to send their kids to private school. Just wondering where you stand on the issue.

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Im generally in favor of vouchers. I think families should have a choice and not have to pay 100% of the cost of a public school education if they are going the private route. I dont believe it should be a voucher for the average cost per pupil in that district though. Flight from the publics could then leave budgets too thin to support the physical assets of the district, penalizing those that remain. Eg if 80% of the budget is teachers, books, supplies, coaches etc and 20% is to support the physical assets, then vouchers should only be for 80% of average cost per pupil.

Truthfully, after watching friends kids who have gone the private route, either for academic, athletic or social purposes, I dont think the academic side will prove worthwhile. I dont find the quality of education any higher or the kids any better prepared for college coming out of the privates vs the publics. Since the "voucher" families would presumably not be there for the athletics ("Subsidies" are always available for the star athletes) or the social aspects (which are primarily advantageous within the same social group, not to move up in social groups), my guess is they wont be much happier with the private school route.

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Exactly. Why did that 80% want to go to college?

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Im not sure of the relevance of the question, but im sure the motivations were reflective of the the broader population: the promise of higher paying careers, family pressures, to party, to delay working another 4+ years, to prepare them to take over a family business etc.