|
|
#31
06-30-2007, 05:13 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What "principle" guides the ethics of the atheist other than "self interest"? [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious for this one? Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that you can't recognize that certain principles are good ones to live by. Personally, I have a lot of principles that I try to live by: - Don't be prejudiced - Independent investigation of truth - The golden rule - loyalty, responsibility, integrity, generosity, etc. I guess I'm not a standard atheist though. I prefer to think of myself as an agnostic, but that supposedly means I'm a coward who's afraid to take a stance. [/ QUOTE ] I think such principles are part of our heritage. They are echos of our religious past. [/ QUOTE ] Just because they are part of our religious past doesn't mean that all atheists abandon them. Some of us realize that religion has some positive things to offer. [ QUOTE ] What I see going forward is people scoffing at ideas like "Honor". Witness the recent "Parasite Dilemma" thread where people were puzzled by the idea that they would keep their word once it is given. What's wrong with cheating? What's wrong with lying? Self interest is everything. [/ QUOTE ] That's kind of a dishonest representation of what went on in that thread. The way you set up the question you framed it as a purely economic question and didn't talk about a real world scenario. In that thread many people conceded that if you changed the premise so that it was more realistic they would have changed their answers. Basically you asked the question in a strict sense with very narrow costs and benefits and then you were surprised when people answered based on only those factors that you mentioned. 
|
|
#32
06-30-2007, 05:20 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Are you serious for this one? Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that you can't recognize that certain principles are good ones to live by. Personally, I have a lot of principles that I try to live by: - Don't be prejudiced - Independent investigation of truth - The golden rule - loyalty, responsibility, integrity, generosity, etc. I guess I'm not a standard atheist though. I prefer to think of myself as an agnostic, but that supposedly means I'm a coward who's afraid to take a stance. [/ QUOTE ] All 4 of those are really just wordy versions of "naked self-interest." The golden rule isn't even a camouflaged version. [/ QUOTE ] While that may be true in the strictest sense, they communicate more than "self-interest". I don't want to get into the whole altruistic debate in this thread, but let's say I grant you that point. If I teach a child to live only by the principle of "naked self-interest" it will take him a while to realize that all the principles above lead to this self-interest. You're really nitpicking this point. I'm just conveying what I actually try to keep in mind as I go through life. (I would debate the "everything we do is selfish" claim, but I think I went over it in that other thread last week. Suffice it to say, that if everyone acts selfishly, then this 'self-interest' talk doesn't really mean anything.)
|
|
#33
06-30-2007, 05:21 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
Pairtheboard's comment reinforces my stance that any proper moral decision by an atheist can also be arrived at by a flexible theist. I'm open to persuasion because it would be a point for my team, but I'd be surprised. [/ QUOTE ] I most definitely agree with this. It's just sad that so many theists think that they aren't allowed to be flexible.
|
|
#34
06-30-2007, 05:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
How apt do people find this comparison? [/ QUOTE ] Witchcraft is a religion! Ask any of their adherents. To me it is in essence no different from any other religion that brings "supernatural" into the equation that one's own existence and consciousness may trigger and therfore the topic is wrong in calling it a metaphor.
|
|
#35
06-30-2007, 05:47 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Are you serious for this one? Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that you can't recognize that certain principles are good ones to live by. Personally, I have a lot of principles that I try to live by: - Don't be prejudiced - Independent investigation of truth - The golden rule - loyalty, responsibility, integrity, generosity, etc. I guess I'm not a standard atheist though. I prefer to think of myself as an agnostic, but that supposedly means I'm a coward who's afraid to take a stance. [/ QUOTE ] All 4 of those are really just wordy versions of "naked self-interest." The golden rule isn't even a camouflaged version. [/ QUOTE ] While that may be true in the strictest sense, they communicate more than "self-interest". I don't want to get into the whole altruistic debate in this thread, but let's say I grant you that point. If I teach a child to live only by the principle of "naked self-interest" it will take him a while to realize that all the principles above lead to this self-interest. You're really nitpicking this point. I'm just conveying what I actually try to keep in mind as I go through life. (I would debate the "everything we do is selfish" claim, but I think I went over it in that other thread last week. Suffice it to say, that if everyone acts selfishly, then this 'self-interest' talk doesn't really mean anything.) [/ QUOTE ] Totally agree that I am being a giant nit.
|
|
#36
06-30-2007, 02:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
…To me it's the epitome of irony that a Christian can laugh at an astrologist with a straight face… [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I true Christian doesn’t laugh at anyone.
|
|
#37
06-30-2007, 02:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What "principle" guides the ethics of the atheist other than "self interest"? [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious for this one? Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that you can't recognize that certain principles are good ones to live by. Personally, I have a lot of principles that I try to live by: - Don't be prejudiced - Independent investigation of truth - The golden rule - loyalty, responsibility, integrity, generosity, etc. I guess I'm not a standard atheist though. I prefer to think of myself as an agnostic, but that supposedly means I'm a coward who's afraid to take a stance. [/ QUOTE ] I think such principles are part of our heritage. They are echos of our religious past. What I see going forward is people scoffing at ideas like "Honor". Witness the recent "Parasite Dilemma" thread where people were puzzled by the idea that they would keep their word once it is given. What's wrong with cheating? What's wrong with lying? Self interest is everything. PairTheBoard [/ QUOTE ] So sad to see Aristotle thrown into the Jesus camp. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, St. Thomas Aquinas had some nerve?
|
|
#38
06-30-2007, 04:27 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] …To me it's the epitome of irony that a Christian can laugh at an astrologist with a straight face… [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I true Christian doesn’t laugh at anyone. [/ QUOTE ] what if he's also a scotsman? luckyme
|
|
#39
06-30-2007, 07:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] …To me it's the epitome of irony that a Christian can laugh at an astrologist with a straight face… [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I true Christian doesn’t laugh at anyone. [/ QUOTE ] what if he's also a scotsman? luckyme [/ QUOTE ] I don’t get it, luckyme. You mean Scots are kinda stoic? Yeah, then a Scot who is a good Christian doesn’t laugh much. Poor fellow. (BTW, I obviously meant to type “a true Christian”, not “I true Christian”. And not even close to a Freudian slip.)
|
|
#40
06-30-2007, 07:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Witchcraft as a metaphor for religion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] …To me it's the epitome of irony that a Christian can laugh at an astrologist with a straight face… [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I true Christian doesn’t laugh at anyone. [/ QUOTE ] what if he's also a scotsman? luckyme [/ QUOTE ] I don’t get it, luckyme. You mean Scots are kinda stoic? Yeah, then a Scot who is a good Christian doesn’t laugh much. Poor fellow. (BTW, I obviously meant to type “a true Christian”, not “I true Christian”. And not even close to a Freudian slip.) [/ QUOTE ] oh, I wasn't up to anything clever, merely a jab in the ribs over your "no real scotsman" fallacy. nothing serious, luckyme
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
