Stuck Between Agnosticism and Christianity

[kurto]

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Oh I'm shocked Kurto is making allegations against me after the "ambiguous" pm he sent me...You do seem to like to ride any thread I show up in Kurto...

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I read all the threads in this forum on a regular basis. Most of the regulars here. Only you would find that odd.

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My intent in answering this OP was to answer his question not to get in spurious arguments with everyone on this site or to answer every question raised...No one else seems to be answering every post or every question so I find it unreasonable for posters in this forum to hold me to a different and higher standard than they hold themselves... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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The point is that you regulary fail spectacularly to answer questions directed at you in most threads you participate in.

At this point, I don't know that anyone expects you to answer in a reasonable manner. But its probably fun to ask and see you deflect/evade or ignore.

[Splendour]

Did it ever occur to you when those allegations came up that I wasn't answering questions was when I was managing multiple posts...the reading and answering was astronomical...so I'm human ...so I missed some questions...Lots of people don't answer everything in this forum...I asked a question about Clinton the other day and everyone skipped over it...I didn't get mad...I didn't level accusations...people find different angles they want to discuss...Besides I might not have a fully articulated answer when a question was asked I may be thinking about it myself...People are never obligated to argue anyways ...A lot of people on this site aren't arguing they are posting observations, jokes, etc. I don't have to argue about everything I post because some individuals hold antagonistic viewpoints...

[hitch1978]

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However, I've lately been extremely concerned about the existence of Hell and the implications of my agnosticism after my death, should I end up wrong.

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Take comfort that Peter666 will be up in heaven, finding meaning in your suffering (which, btw, I will be sharing with you.)


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Sounds like we'll have a blast.

Since I've been here (2p2 SMP) I've met loads of freinds for the afterlife. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Mempho]

The whole argument on both sides is missing a chord, IMHO. The truth of the matter, IMO, is that it is impossible to get to the truth on either side because of an ongoing bias on both sides throughout history.

Scientific evidence, historical evidence, and theological beliefs are all subject to a much greater degree of bias and error than anyone would care to admit. The truth is further obscured in semantics, legalism, and debate.

If you are going to base your beliefs on something besides faith (and that's fine if you decide to do it), you should exhaust every resource until you are able to verify its truth.

Atheism is a every bit a religious belief as is Christianity because it lacks any proof or evidence.

[kurto]

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Atheism is a every bit a religious belief as is Christianity because it lacks any proof or evidence.


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No its not. Unless you're using an alternative definition of 'religion'.

Also- you have some logical errors. One doesn't need "proof of lack of evidence" to NOT believe in something where there's no overwhelming compelling evidence to do otherwise.

If you don't believe in Invisible Unicorns, is it a "religious belief" because you don't have any evidence that invisible unicorns don't exist?

[Splendour]

You made some nice points Mempho...I recently was thinking about the term intellectual...and of course had to dig around in Wikipedia and I came up with this little gem which is an excerpt under the subject Intellectual:

Intellectualism:
Strictly a doctrine about the possibility of deriving knowledge from reason alone, intellectualism can stand for a general approach emphasising the importance of learning and logical thinking. As a philosophical doctrine it is usually termed Rationalism. Criticism of this attitude, sometimes summed up as Left Bank, caricatures intellectualism's faith in the mind and puts it in opposition to subjective experience, religious faith, emotion, instinct, and primitivist values in general.


Academics and public intellectuals:
In some contexts, especially journalistic speech, intellectual refers to academics, generally in the humanities, especially philosophy, who speak about various issues of social or political import. These are so-called public intellectuals — in effect communicators.

The term masks an assumption or several, in particular on academia, for example that intellectual work goes on generally in private, and there is a gap to society that requires bridging. In general practice, 'intellectual' as a label is more consistently applied to fields related to culture, the arts and social sciences than it is to working disciplines in the natural sciences, applied sciences, mathematics or engineering. Critics argue that intellectuals in these fields may remain as susceptible to indoctrination, self-deception, and propaganda as the general public because they suffer from the same human prejudices and weaknesses.

[vhawk01]

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The whole argument on both sides is missing a chord, IMHO. The truth of the matter, IMO, is that it is impossible to get to the truth on either side because of an ongoing bias on both sides throughout history.

Scientific evidence, historical evidence, and theological beliefs are all subject to a much greater degree of bias and error than anyone would care to admit. The truth is further obscured in semantics, legalism, and debate.

If you are going to base your beliefs on something besides faith (and that's fine if you decide to do it), you should exhaust every resource until you are able to verify its truth.

Atheism is a every bit a religious belief as is Christianity because it lacks any proof or evidence.

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When in doubt, call atheism a religion! And then, no matter what we say, you can just refuse to acknowledge our definitions and go on pretending you have any clue what you are talking about! I should point out you forget to use the words "dogma" or "fundamentalist," still time to edit maybe?

Tell me what about the lack of belief in God is like a religion. Please?

If it makes you feel better, theism isn't a religion either.

Vhawk's Big Board of Things That Aren't Religions:
Atheism
Theism
Bananas
More?

[Jamougha]

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Jamougha do you really think man's reasoning and God's reasoning is the same?

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No. That's rather my point. In the unlikely event that there is an intelligent being who created the universe and intends to preserve our consciousness after death in order to mete out rewards and punishments, then we should have no way of even guessing what criteria he has in mind for said rewards and punishments. He might hate people who like strawberry blancmange. There's simply nothing we can sensibly say about the topic. It's only the incredible arrogance of the religious that allows them to claim to have insight into the mind of god.

[Nielsio]

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I believe I already answered you Nielsio...If you guys are reading Nietzsche, Kant, Foucault, Plato and the rest of the philosophical crowd I think you can define the term God for yourself...or pull down a dictionary or encyclopedic definition yourself and mull it over... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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Ok, for 'god' I got 'supernatural being'.

Then I looked up 'supernatural', which gave me 'beyond what is natural'.

So that would lead to the conclusion that 'god' is defined as something not real.

Would you agree with that?


If not:

Q3. What is a 'god'? Please define what it is and how it works.

Q4. How do you know?

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Bump for answers plz. The answer "I don't know" suffices btw.

[kurto]

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Ok, for 'god' I got 'supernatural being'.

Then I looked up 'supernatural', which gave me 'beyond what is natural'.

So that would lead to the conclusion that 'god' is defined as something not real.

Would you agree with that?


If not:

Q3. What is a 'god'? Please define what it is and how it works.

Q4. How do you know?

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Bump for answers plz. The answer "I don't know" suffices btw.

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He's explained why he can't answer the question.

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I was managing multiple posts...the reading and answering was astronomical...so I'm human ...so I missed some questions...Lots of people don't answer everything in this forum... (edited for brevity) Besides I might not have a fully articulated answer when a question was asked I may be thinking about it myself...People are never obligated to argue anyways ...A lot of people on this site aren't arguing they are posting observations, jokes, etc. I don't have to argue about everything I post because some individuals hold antagonistic viewpoints...


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Not to mention he's looking up words like "intellectual" and posting them on the forum. That stuff takes time.

Its up to you to figure out what he means by God.

I suggest, since he can't answer your question, we just go with one... let's assume by God he means one of the supernatural overlord from the Discword series.

We can simplify by simply assuming one one refers to God, that we mean:
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[edit] Bibulous
The God of Wine and Things on Sticks. He appears as a large, overly-merry man in a toga. In Tsort he is also known as Smimto, and Tuvelpit in Ephebe. He never gets a hangover (those are part of Bilious' portfolio), but he does get the unpleasant side-effects when Bilious takes a hangover cure. The effects of this link, should either ever drink time-reversed alcohol such as vul-nut wine, is undiscovered. His name literally means "one who drinks".



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