Why M is Overrated

[Spee]

I'm not sure what the OP's point was. I don't see anything wrong with OP title, but I didn't see where the title correlated with the post.

I'm agreeing mostly with the response above me. M is only one of many inputs to a decision on how to bet. In many cases, M means very little.

If I don't know where I stand relative to my position at the table, and my position relative to the leaders, and M helps me get there, then fine, M is great. But if I rely primarily on M without thinking of anything else, then I'm a non-thinking feesh waiting to get outplayed by a better player or run down by other tournament/table dynamics.

With respect to your point about number of orbits left, sometimes that means something and sometimes that means nothing. If I'm several doubles away from the small money or the lead, then I really don't care whether my M is 2 or 5 or 10. I need to be locked, loaded and firing, not waiting another orbit for AA or KK.

[runout_mick]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't care whether my M is 2 or 5 or 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm, you should. It should directly affect your approach to any situation...

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what the OP's point was.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think i get it, and i think it's a fair point.

he's just saying that the average player doesn't pay attention to the antes in the middle, only to what they see as the size of the raise over their big blinds -- the additional amount they'll need to call on top of what they have invested. so in this sense, BB is a more accurate barometer (sp?) of fold equity than "M" is.

i think i probably agree. it's not like groundbreaking or anything, but he's got a point.

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't care whether my M is 2 or 5 or 10. I need to be locked, loaded and firing, not waiting another orbit for AA or KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really should care. There is a big difference between M of 2 and M of 10. With an M of 10, you still have some room to maneuver, with an M of 2, you don't. It sounds to me, that you are saying that one of your primary concerns is your Q. I think it is a factor, but not as important as many others. I have seen a lot of decent players nurse a smallish stack (low Q, decent M above 5) and make it pretty far. This is especially true in deepstack tournies and rebuys. You may be at 5,000 after the break in a $3r. Your Q is usually about .5 or less and your M is still 22. So, even though you are behind most of the rest of the field, you are not desperate and still has some room to move.

[berryman300]

What is M? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[bgoalie35]

You need to go Amazon.com and buy a copy of Harrington on Hold EM Volume I and II. Well worth it.

The answer to your question, M is the size of your stack when compared to the SB, the BB, and all the antes. For instance, if SB =400, BB = 800, 10 players with 50 ante, then the starting pot is 1700.

If you have 17,000 chips, your M is 10. M tells you how many more orbits you can survive before you are blinded out.

[rockin]

also see FAQ

[00-KGB-00]

Buy Harrington on Hold 'Em Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 for further explanation. M is the size of your chip stack relative to the sum of the Small Blind plus the Big Blind. Here's a simple example:

SB: 500
BB: 1000
Your chip stack: 45,000

M = 45,000/(500+1000)
M = 45,000/1500
M = 30

Basically it represent how many times around the table the table you will survive until the blinds/antes eat your stack down to 0 if you didn't play any hands (at the current blind structure). If your stack stayed the same and the blinds went up to 1000/2000 your M would go down to 15 (45,000/3000 = 15).

AC

[rockin]

You sound like an old school Party Poker player (as they didn't use to have antes). The whole thread was based upon the disucssion of the relevance of antes and M, so I would include antes in your description.

[Hoosier Daddy]

I think you're trying to make a distinction that doesn't exist. M and N (number of BB left in your stack) are fully correlated -- M = N / 1.5 if there are no antes. Whether you think in terms of M or N is mathematically irrelevant.