Grimstarr c/r's me on the river - Page 4

SecretOfMana · #1 03-21-2007, 07:21 PM

Thats one tough ass spot... he knows you cant fold a K there... can you? I would just flip a coin and call if its heads.

Raised2Win · #2 03-21-2007, 07:58 PM

true or false: when something is this close, it doesn't really matter what u do ?

mperich · #3 03-21-2007, 11:46 PM

lol fold. what do you think he has, 65 or a4?

-Mike

ps. I never fold

traheho · #4 03-22-2007, 02:19 AM

this is weird. mperich, jman and I all think fold. and for those who dont know none of us ever fold. i think he accounts K in your range here. 45 got there on turn and i think a lot of people check K here to get value out of mid pair on good river. Im usually betting KJ w/ my image on turn as well and then re-evaluate river, however a fair % of the time is good. as played i fold.

riverboatking · #5 03-22-2007, 04:05 AM

i think this is a great spot for grim to go for a CR on river with any hand that beats a K.
the K on the river is a good card for your whole range.
i'd expect you to value bet a hand like TT in this spot as well as bluff with a pretty decent frequency, so its a good spot to CR.

that being said i'm a pay off wizard and in heat of moment i prolly always click call.
but i think its a good spot to fold.

mastr · #6 03-22-2007, 06:35 AM

Yo ike, what's GStar's 3-bet % on you PF? Can't we narrow down a boatload of hands because of that? And Noah, we can easily get here with much better then our actual hand btw. Gut instinct says fold from what I know of the 2 of you guys, but I don't know how much you guys know of each other. Its a close somewhat sick spot either way but looking at this hand in a vacuum I say fold.

LBK · #7 03-22-2007, 08:22 AM

I think he has air. All in.

thetruest · #8 03-22-2007, 09:13 AM

i have a feeling it doesn't matter what you do here anymore as he will be bluffing this situation 40% of the time and got yourself trapped. It's too easy to put you on K or something mediocre (if you had a set would you want to bet the turn? i think so). Sometimes he'll have it, sometimes he'll push you off. And then alot of times, players won't have that king or anything good and won't wanna play a big pot with all those undercards on the board.

As for this situation for some reason i lean towards fold because it sounds like you feel like he knows you can lay it down, and if he knows that you think he knows that you can lay it down then you're more apt to call. That and if he did boat up it does sound like a hand one would call OOP a little more often instead of 3betting light pf (22 and 33).

adanthar · #9 03-22-2007, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this is weird. mperich, jman and I all think fold. and for those who dont know none of us ever fold. i think he accounts K in your range here. 45 got there on turn and i think a lot of people check K here to get value out of mid pair on good river. Im usually betting KJ w/ my image on turn as well and then re-evaluate river, however a fair % of the time is good. as played i fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The trouble with this hand is that you can't have a boat or a straight (at least, I hope you bet a straight on the turn, lol.) The absolute best hand you've got here is AK, and Grim has to know this. Like I said earlier, there's nearly zero dif between AK and KJ here. So, if Grim is ever CR'ing made hands other than 54+, don't like it but must call etc. If his CR range is exactly (air, 54+), our hand strength makes no difference and we should be calling TT here occasionally while folding AK most of the time, but I have the feeling he doesn't play that bad.

NoahSD · #10 03-22-2007, 03:34 AM

Does Grim turn like 55 into a bluff here? I don't get what he could call pre, call flop, and bluff river with here.

Edit: Of course, folding here is exploitable as hell since this is probably close to the strongest hand we ever get here with. But in order for Grim to exploit this, he'd have to start c/ring a ton of marginal made hands or calling on the flop with air. I doubt he's doing either of those.