Why do you guys pay for Poker Tracker?

[Phil153]

Warrior,

No one here is knocking open source. Most people in this thread are aware of Linux/Unix, how it began, and how important it was for software development. I think the open source movement is a great idea. And I definitely have no desire to help some random internet vendor make another half a mil.

The "negativity" in this thread started because of comments like this:

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I am wondering why you guys, some with programming experience choose a program that you must pay for to do the simple action of converting flat text files into a working database.

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This is a tiny fraction of the programming work required to create a PokerTracker clone. The fact that you trivialize the program suggests to those who have written working, real world software that you aren't aware of the amount of effort and commitment required to do a project of this size. Comments like this:

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If any of you who have paid for the software would like to contribute it would be a huge help for me to just see some sample data of a couple hands so I can make my database somewhat compatible using PT for the base, and adding all the features that I think are necessary.

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further indicate a lack of seriousness or competence. Who begins a serious attempt at cloning a commercial product without even having examined the product in question??

If you'd come in here and said: "Hi guys, it sucks that we have to pay for Pokertracker, I'd like to start working on an open source version. I know it's a huge job but I'm willing to help code and coordinate things and if we can get some programmers behind this, it'd be great", I guarantee you'd have very different responses.

For what it's worth, there was a hand parsing project begun by bachfan about 6 months ago, a very competent coder. Basically, a lot of people write hand parsers for their custom code, which has to be updated every time a site changes. From what I understand it's set up on sourceforge, but never went beyond the design phase. If you're serious about creating an open source pokertracker and getting community support, perhaps reviving this is a good place to start?

[WARRiOR520]

Phil, the entire post was directed towards the group that would be browsing the software forum, I didn't realize at first how many people not involved in coding read this. I apologize if I was unclear, but you have jumped to a lot of conclusions, and I obviously think your a dick, even though you couldn't have realize when you called me incompetent that I had only access to the trial version and I had hoped that the way things were stored with postgreSQL would be a little different and also easier for me to work with since I know postgres at least better than I know the Jet DB or whatever the trial version uses.

[Grunch]

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I'm a student,

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This explains everything. Once you get some experience with real life software development, you'll see why people are willing to pay for software rather than writing it themselves.

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It seems you don't know enough about 'real life' software development, because if your views made any sense you would be able to back them up by the failure of the open source movement which is, to say the least... simply not failing.

Maybe I should write it just for myself and any collaborators since it seems to be in the spirit of poker that everyone should have to pay, forget the generosity and positives of open sourcing the code. Actually, I could do that, and I would be limited to what I could personally implement. Poker tracker is limited by a team of developers, that also will undoubtedly not be around forever to support paying customers and changes. If this type of thing was open and learned by even a few people, the software would be able to continue to thrive. I am done trying to explain this to you guys, maybe one of the supporters could point me in the direction of a software forum that has a poker discussion where people will just mind their own business if they find a project a waste of time? I'm pretty sure I could find a thousand projects online that I would consider less than worthwhile, should I have a problem with them being developed? Should I be writing in to the authors critically second guessing their desire to learn through coding? You must be real involved with software development, sounds like a very 'Microsoft' way of thinking, what do you have against open source? Many of the things you take for granted on today's internet would not be possible if not for the work of volunteer programmers.

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Most programmers working in open source work for a salary. They are not volunteers.

You seem to be holding the open source banner high. You, of all people, should know that "free" refers not to money but restrictions on use and modification.

There is much more to writing a full-fledged software package which is ready for public disctribution that you seem to think. You seem to be saying that it would be a simple matter to write a parser, and a simple matter to write code that inserts records in to a database. True enough, these are fairly simple things. But you also seem to be making the connection that because these two things are simple to do, writing a PT equivelant must also be simple. This is about as far removed from reality as is possible, and frankly I'm suprised that you, supposedly being a programmer, would think otherwise.

I'm not suggesting that you should abandon your plan to write an open-source alternative to PT. In fact, I encourage you to do it. If you actually succeed, it will look good on your resume, at least.

Your original question was,

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Why do you guys pay for Poker Tracker?

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My answer is because it works, and because it's cheap. And because when it breaks (don't be so foolish as to think you'll write bug-free code) I know that I don't have to fix it myself.

My question for you is why are you opposed to paying for PokerTracker? What is wrong with doing things "the MicroSoft way?" (Which by the way is the way software has been produced since before MS existed)

[WARRiOR520]

I never said writing a PT equivilant would be simple do do, simply asked why with so many coders around, would they choose to use a program that they cannot change, I now know, because they are lazy, end of story. When I have time, I will maybe post my project here, until then thank you to the ones who have sent PMs and anyone else who wants to get involved please feel free to send one.

[Grunch]

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I now know, because they are lazy, end of story

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I speak for myself (but probably many others) when I say that the reason I didn't implement what you describe is not because I am lazy, but because doing so would require a gargantuan effort.

And your attitude as quoted above only serves to drive people away from your cause, not towards it. The very people you should want to contribute to your project, people like me, read your words and imagine someone who would be very unpleasant to work with. Is this really your goal?

[rvg72]

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why with so many coders around, would they choose to use a program that they cannot change: because they are lazy, end of story.

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LOL. Good luck.

rvg

[rvg72]

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had only access to the trial version and I had hoped that the way things were stored with postgreSQL would be a little different and also easier for me to work with since I know postgres at least better than I know the Jet DB or whatever the trial version uses.

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Now for something helpful, DB structure is essentially the same between PostgreSQL and Access. But really, if you are making a new program the last thing you would want to do is use the same DB model as poker tracker.

rvg

[Grunch]

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had only access to the trial version and I had hoped that the way things were stored with postgreSQL would be a little different and also easier for me to work with since I know postgres at least better than I know the Jet DB or whatever the trial version uses.

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Now for something helpful, DB structure is essentially the same between PostgreSQL and Access. But really, if you are making a new program the last thing you would want to do is use the same DB model as poker tracker.

rvg

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I agree. There really should be a street-by-street record of the action. For example it should be possible to construct a query that figures out how many times someone minraises. With the current PT structure, this is impossible.

[TheIrishThug]

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You seem to be holding the open source banner high. You, of all people, should know that "free" refers not to money but restrictions on use and modification.

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"'Free software' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of 'free' as in 'free speech', not as in 'free beer'." - GNU.org

[CudjoeBill]

Excellent quote, Thug.