wsop 1500 PL bottom set

[registrar]

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Folks,
There isnt a huge difference between potting the flop and the t200. You are giving slightly better odds to a draw but the difference isnt a deal breaker. FWIW I pot the turn though as you dodged all the [censored] cards there and then you obviously call the raise. KT, K9 could do this, A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and T or 9 could limp in. Lots of options, I will agree that QJ is an obvious option here too. All that said these are huge minefields with fairly shallow structure, take your medicine, make the call and play cash games the rest of the night if he has you beat.
~Justin

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As I said, I'm no PLHE expert, but you pot so you can make as big a bet as possible on later streets, no?

[PickyTooth]

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Again, God I wish I was 21.

Raise this PF, and then pot this on the flop. Or better yet, learn how to play PLHE.

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riiiiight I like being told by some kid that grinds 20/180s on stars that I'm not good at poker.


Anyways I folded. I guess it's pretty stupid to post a hand that's so read dependant.

[Caldarooni]

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Folks,
There isnt a huge difference between potting the flop and the t200. You are giving slightly better odds to a draw but the difference isnt a deal breaker.

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Nonononono. This is PL...the difference, and it's a huge one, is that it affects how much of a stack you can get in with a set on the turn.

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I just dont get it I guess. Betting 2/3 of the pot instead of the pot doesnt change anything on the turn with these stack sizes from what I am seeing.

[PickyTooth]

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Ok, so you have to basically call 1100 to win a pot of 3200. That about right? 900 pre-turn +your 600 + his 600 + his push = the rest of your money, or 1100.

If that's correct, you are getting 3-1 for this call, and if he *only* ever has QJ you are at ~3.5-1 to win.

Given that he could possibly have KT or some other possibility, I think this is a marginal call, since when we add KT to his range you are then essentially even money against his range.

*Both pokerstove's below. first vs QJ, then with KT in the mix.

As a side note, I think this could potentially be TT for middle set.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

44 games 0.062 secs 709 games/sec

Board: Th Kh 3c 9d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 77.2727 % 77.27% 00.00% { QcJd }
Hand 2: 22.7273 % 22.73% 00.00% { 9h9s }


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,100 games 0.005 secs 220,000 games/sec

Board: Kh Th 9d 3c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 52.7273 % 52.73% 00.00% { KTs, QJs, KTo, QJo }
Hand 2: 47.2727 % 47.27% 00.00% { 9h9s }

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If the guy does this with K 10 he also does it with 10 10.

[Jurollo]

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[ QUOTE ]
Folks,
There isnt a huge difference between potting the flop and the t200. You are giving slightly better odds to a draw but the difference isnt a deal breaker. FWIW I pot the turn though as you dodged all the [censored] cards there and then you obviously call the raise. KT, K9 could do this, A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and T or 9 could limp in. Lots of options, I will agree that QJ is an obvious option here too. All that said these are huge minefields with fairly shallow structure, take your medicine, make the call and play cash games the rest of the night if he has you beat.
~Justin

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As I said, I'm no PLHE expert, but you pot so you can make as big a bet as possible on later streets, no?

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Yes this is correct. However, in this instance the stacks are shallow enough that it doesnt terribly effect the hand longterm. I agree that potting the flop is optimal, however, it doesnt effect the hand as played. Potting there would allow for a t1100 pot rather than t900. I think he needs to pot the turn though either way which is where i disagree. If he pots the turn here he is committed either way to call the villian's raise on the turn. If the stacks were slightly deeper I could see the argument for potting the flop making a reasonable difference in this hand. The real mistake was made on the turn.
~Justin

[QandA201]

Yeah, but I did this based on what players far better than I have said they think it is. If all three possibilities are evenly weighted you are getting odds to call.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

3,696 games 0.015 secs 246,400 games/sec

Board: Kh Th 9d 3c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 57.5758 % 57.58% 00.00% { TT, KTs, QJs, KTo, QJo }
Hand 2: 42.4242 % 42.42% 00.00% { 99 }

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Folks,
There isnt a huge difference between potting the flop and the t200. You are giving slightly better odds to a draw but the difference isnt a deal breaker. FWIW I pot the turn though as you dodged all the [censored] cards there and then you obviously call the raise. KT, K9 could do this, A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and T or 9 could limp in. Lots of options, I will agree that QJ is an obvious option here too. All that said these are huge minefields with fairly shallow structure, take your medicine, make the call and play cash games the rest of the night if he has you beat.
~Justin

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As I said, I'm no PLHE expert, but you pot so you can make as big a bet as possible on later streets, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes this is correct. However, in this instance the stacks are shallow enough that it doesnt terribly effect the hand longterm. I agree that potting the flop is optimal, however, it doesnt effect the hand as played. Potting there would allow for a t1100 pot rather than t900. I think he needs to pot the turn though either way which is where i disagree. If he pots the turn here he is committed either way to call the villian's raise on the turn. If the stacks were slightly deeper I could see the argument for potting the flop making a reasonable difference in this hand. The real mistake was made on the turn.
~Justin

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OK, I see now. As I say, I'm no PLHE expert. I've only played in home games. However, the other reason why I pot the flop here is to represent a made hand, but vulnerable hand, and thus get a better read on any action behind. That sounds a bit silly, now I've written it.

[greg44]

they each have 2000

300 + 300 + 300 + 300

1200 bet on turn (1550 invested) so your getting 2:1 with only 450 left.

as opposed to

200 + 200 + 200 + 300

900 bet on turn (1150 invested) leaving 850 behind

Both bets pot commit you but the implied odds on both bets are

2850 / 1200 = 2.375: 1

2650 / 900 = 2.94: 1

Like Jurollo said the stacks are too shallow so these implied odds are virtually the same since there isn't a hand that should call getting 2.94 and fold getting 2.375.

[deankeaton7]

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Again, God I wish I was 21.

Raise this PF, and then pot this on the flop. Or better yet, learn how to play PLHE.

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We've read the tone of your posts. You don't need to make it known that you're not 21. It's painfully obvious.

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Yes once you grow in maturity, you do things like tell a 16 year old kid to kill himself (after his whole world has just turned against him).

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Yea that was JJProdigy, and I was being honest. I really do think he should kill himself. I wouldn't bash him just for misplaying a hand tho.

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Seems reasonable. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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Wow, that escalated quickly.

[nath]

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Anyways I folded. I guess it's pretty stupid to post a hand that's so read dependant.

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Yeah, the thing about those hands is that you're only going to get answers using information available to the rest of us, which never includes your reads.

If your reads are strong enough to make you fold a set and you trust them, go with it, but don't expect other people to have the same reads or be able to use them to determine if your decision was right.