Would You Try It? Live Shenanigans (long rambling post)

[Chaostracize]

Good story Mikey, but there's a big difference between board and action in OP's post and yours.

I'm super up in the air about this one.

[Phresh]

I wouldn't.. maybe it's because of the limits I play, but people ALWAYS convince themselves you're only shoving the scary card because they bet so f'ing little. I can definitely see this guy saying, "Well, I came here to gamble, I call, let's see your flush.."

Ah, and then obviously saying, "I knew he didn't have it" after he rakes the pot.

[Bill King]

i think this is a rare spot where you can get away pulling this type of move.. although making it ~3k is kinda pointless.. shoving is the best play here. KhTh, 9hTh are both hands in which you'd probably take the same line if you were pretty deep.. and you are.

not to mention what krantz said earlier.. your bet demands respect from somebody who apparently is leaving and leaving a winner.

[lapoker17]

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i happened to have 72o and sucked out hardcore (true story), but what legitimate hand could he beat there on the river?

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mike - it's disgusting that you would try to use cero's fine thread as yet another device in your neverending crusade to prove that you are not a nit.

[Schmitty 87]

Here's what I don't get. If we're so quick to shove here because we feel he won't look us up without the nuts, that means that we wouldn't play hearts this way, because we wouldn't be able to get paid. I think that limits our range to strong hands, and I don't think it's too much of a jump for villain to figure that out. Granted, a lot of people (like hero in the actual hand) won't raise the river with a hand like QJ or JJ which I guess makes shove good, but I don't think shove is far and away the best play here.

[Heir_Aparent]

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Hi Cero,

Does the fact that villain probably holds the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] make a shove look better or worse? I would think worse because he would know hero cannot have the nuts, so a big shove that could be the nuts or nothing is looking a lot like nothing.

-DeathDonkey

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honestly i doubt a player this bad even realizes thats relevant. His thought process is probably "I have a set of aces. The flush hit, [censored]."

If he does realize it though and apply logic to it, i could see him being bad enough to call based heavily on the fact he has the Ah.

[BobboFitos]

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another hand that relates to this 3-barreling business. this one was from the bellagio 10-20 two nights ago. keep in mind that i'd been playing tight solid poker all night, not once getting out of line. anyhow, there was an open-raise to $100 from early position, next guy called, button called, and i made it $500 to go from the bb (i started the hand with $5100.) original raiser folded, next guy called, button folded.

hu to the flop: 9 7 5 rainbow. i bet $700, he called.

turn Q. i bet $1500, he called.

river 2. i shoved my last $2400. he called with JJ. i happened to have 72o and sucked out hardcore (true story), but what legitimate hand could he beat there on the river? nothing but a bluff, but he called anyway. my point being, ppl are willing to look up even that 3rd barrel much lighter and more often than you all seem to think.

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lol mike, 72o? niiiice =)

he put you on AK btw

[mikech]

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mike ... you are not a nit.

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thank you la, you're the only one who truly knows me!

[igetbadbeat]

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cero, definitely shove. he's leaving, you think he wants to explain to his friends/girlfriend/whoever that he was up huge and then lost it all on the last hand? or want to deal with it himself? he'll see the board, look down at his stack and still see enough money behind where he can walk away a "winner", and fold (and i don't think he'll be that reluctant, either).

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i think this is very optimistic. i played a hand with a very similar context a few months ago: it was a 2-5 1k max-buy game at the venetian, a kid had his 2k in chips all racked up and was even standing up already. i told him to straddle so he could be sure to play his last hand, but he wouldn't, and said, "i'm only playing AA." he got dealt his hand, bent down to look at it, raised to 40 bucks and sat back down. "so you really got aces!", several ppl at the table chimed in.

i had 76s and called, and told him flat-out, "i've got a nutcracker, i'm gonna snap you off." another player also called, and the flop came something like 7 3 2.

utg kid overbet the pot, like $150, and again i told him, "i'm gonna make a loose call here just so i can bust you."

turn was another 7. kid checked, i bet $500, he thought for a while and called. river's like a 9 or something, he checked again, i shoved for like $1300, whatever he had left (i had him covered), and after tanking again he put his chips in with, indeed, AA.

moral of the story: ppl don't like to fold aces. also, ppl don't like to fold sets. also, ppl don't like to fold sets of aces.

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Uhm, a shove after a check is much different than a shove after a bet no? Your scenario is completely different.,

[mikech]

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different hand. i agree with you about the 'moral', but in your hand you were goading him the whole time, his line was a bluff inducing line, and the board was not scary. in OP's hand, there is no trash talking going on, his line is designed to AVOID bluffs not to induce them, and the flush just hit on the river. totally different.

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there's a big difference between board and action in OP's post and yours.

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Uhm, a shove after a check is much different than a shove after a bet no? Your scenario is completely different.,

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some of you are being stupid. i didn't say the hand or action was similar, the similarity i referred to was the scenario of a guy who's about to quit the game and is playing his last hand. krantz thinks in that situation the guy would be more likely to fold a non-nut hand in order to finish "winner"; i told a story where someone put in 400bb's in that spot with AA. even after the top card on the flop paired on the turn (i guess that's not a scary card at all though).

doesn't matter if it's their "last hand." ppl don't fold aces. ppl don't fold sets. reading a guy not only for aces, but for a SET OF ACES, and trying to push him off of it--with, what, about a pot-sized raise left?--is not going to end well very often.