Are microstakes beatable?

[Ironic]

NL10 is definitely definitely beatable. I started at NL2 and have grinded my way up to NL25 where I currently reside. If you are losing over many thousands of hands at micro stakes it is not bad luck you are doing something wrong. A good player has a huge edge over the micro donkeys. I had a bad run for instance yesterday I lost 3 buyins and I was playing hands well. But I carry on playing good poker and I make it all back and more, you can only lose so many hands where you are the favourite.

I've noticed that old timers say stuff like "oh even a trained monkey can beat micro stakes" well games aren't THAT easy these days but they are still plenty beatable.

Listen to advice but don't take it as gospel. Question everything. If an idea sounds good and has some success but not much don't be afraid to adapt and experiment a bit. Ultimately though following a simple algorithmic approach should bring home the moniez.

GL.

[VivaHate]

If you want to beat micro stakes just play TAG, value bet good hands and try to spot who the regs are, these are the players to bluff/semi bluff. At 10nl make massive overbets with the nuts it will get called by the fish just as much as a pot size bet, if they have anything.

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed that old timers say stuff like "oh even a trained monkey can beat micro stakes" well games aren't THAT easy these days but they are still plenty beatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure the micros might be slightly more challenging to new players now then they have been in the past (given the current state of online poker), but they're still easily beatable for well over 10bb/100.

Specifically, the biggest problem I see is that a lot of beginners are reading books aimed at standard, mid-level games, and trying to apply those strategies to the micros. The micros, by the way, kind of resemble the play at live 1/2 tables.

Online micros came about well after I started out, but here's a few basci concepts that should help:

1) They will not respect your raises.

Common complaint and very true. Your c-bets will be less effective, blind steals will be a lot more risky, bluffs even more so, and you often won't get the fold equity you need when semi-bluffing.

The good news is, you'll generally get a much better payday when you're value betting your good hands.

The obvious solution here is to bluff, blind steal, and c-bet missed flops considerably less often at these stakes. On the other hand, raise more aggressively with your good hands, even raise greater amounts PF if you want. Nothing wrong with a 16/12 game.

2) They usually suck at raising or observing position.

If you're in one of those limp-fest micros games, and effective stack sizes are reasonable (100bb+), you can limp a lot of specualtive hands from the CO or button, even open limping [this would be horrible advice in other games]. This might take you from 16/12 to 25/12, but hey, whatever works.

3) Showing bluffs is vastly more effective than at normal limits, and not very dangerous.

This is contrary to the standard advice at higher limits; don't show hands and give away free information. However, in the micros, showing a couple bluffs (even blind steals) early in the session can do wonders. Most players just aren't sophisticated enough to notice that you're playing tight otherwise, and the better ones will takes notes on you about you being a LAG (a few with PTracker will catch on after a while, but if they were that smart they wouldn't be using PTracker in the micros LOL). Plus, those guys run pretty tilty.

4) Being a little passive is kind of okay.

Try to avoid calling giant river overbets with marginal holdings. Hero calls are bad business there - they don't value bet with something you can call, they want your whole stack and go AI. Sure, there are donk maniacs who will jam every third river, but when in doubt about overbets, fold.

The standard advice of avoiding big pots without a big hand definitely applies.

5) People call AI bets a lot more than they should, especially if they've seen you bluff (see #3). You can overbet the stone cold nuts with river all ins and get called pretty often (see #4).

[RapidEvolution]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed that old timers say stuff like "oh even a trained monkey can beat micro stakes" well games aren't THAT easy these days but they are still plenty beatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure the micros might be slightly more challenging to new players now then they have been in the past (given the current state of online poker), but they're still easily beatable for well over 10bb/100.

Specifically, the biggest problem I see is that a lot of beginners are reading books aimed at standard, mid-level games, and trying to apply those strategies to the micros. The micros, by the way, kind of resemble the play at live 1/2 tables.

Online micros came about well after I started out, but here's a few basci concepts that should help:

1) They will not respect your raises.

Common complaint and very true. Your c-bets will be less effective, blind steals will be a lot more risky, bluffs even more so, and you often won't get the fold equity you need when semi-bluffing.

The good news is, you'll generally get a much better payday when you're value betting your good hands.

The obvious solution here is to bluff, blind steal, and c-bet missed flops considerably less often at these stakes. On the other hand, raise more aggressively with your good hands, even raise greater amounts PF if you want. Nothing wrong with a 16/12 game.

2) They usually suck at raising or observing position.

If you're in one of those limp-fest micros games, and effective stack sizes are reasonable (100bb+), you can limp a lot of specualtive hands from the CO or button, even open limping [this would be horrible advice in other games]. This might take you from 16/12 to 25/12, but hey, whatever works.

3) Showing bluffs is vastly more effective than at normal limits, and not very dangerous.

This is contrary to the standard advice at higher limits; don't show hands and give away free information. However, in the micros, showing a couple bluffs (even blind steals) early in the session can do wonders. Most players just aren't sophisticated enough to notice that you're playing tight otherwise, and the better ones will takes notes on you about you being a LAG (a few with PTracker will catch on after a while, but if they were that smart they wouldn't be using PTracker in the micros LOL). Plus, those guys run pretty tilty.

4) Being a little passive is kind of okay.

Try to avoid calling giant river overbets with marginal holdings. Hero calls are bad business there - they don't value bet with something you can call, they want your whole stack and go AI. Sure, there are donk maniacs who will jam every third river, but when in doubt about overbets, fold.

The standard advice of avoiding big pots without a big hand definitely applies.

5) People call AI bets a lot more than they should, especially if they've seen you bluff (see #3). You can overbet the stone cold nuts with river all ins and get called pretty often (see #4).

[/ QUOTE ]


I think this should be a small pamphlet given to people first taking on micro limits. Sound advice, for sure and I think OP should take everything in this post to heart. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm currently playing 18/9 at $5NL and doing pretty well.

Also, spend some time looking for a good table. I personally like tables with a high % to the flop, small pots, and lots of hands/hr.

[cjk73]

[ QUOTE ]
...(a few with PTracker will catch on after a while, but if they were that smart they wouldn't be using PTracker in the micros LOL)...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[pernicus53]

Yeah, I'm definitely using PT there. The idea is that you really need it to start figuring out your game and improving, and with a $40 bankroll, I was strongly advised to play micro only.

[Teddie]

Pokertracker for your own game is hugely important, but using it with a HUD isnt that important at micro levels.

[shoefactory]

I just started playing online poker a few days ago (starting with .10 BB) on FTP. I 4-table the .10 BB tables (and moving to .25 BB) and the players make so many retarded plays. Theyre all LP. Just play very straightforward. Raise with most hands preflop and a c-bet will always take it down.

I haven't played that long but I haven't had a losing session yet (I know I will soon) and am up $160 playing those low limit tables.

[Pokerdemic]

[ QUOTE ]
It's hand like this that make me want to quit poker. I was having a very nice session going.

Yes I could have raised more pre-flop, or on the flop, but I think the outcome would have been the same.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $10.45
BB: $9.05
UTG: $2.40
UTG+1: $2.85
MP1: $9.60
MP2: $2.30
CO: $11.00
Hero (BTN): $14.80

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8 Players)
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, MP2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $0.30</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.00</font>, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.90, CO calls $0.70

Flop: ($3.15) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
MP1 checks, <font color="red">CO bets $1.90</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4.00</font>, MP1 folds, CO calls $2.10

Turn: ($11.15) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets all-in for $6.00</font>, Hero calls $6.00

River: ($23.15) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $23.15 ($2 Rake)

CO had 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Fours) and WON (+$10.15)
Hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Kings and Fours) and LOST (-$11.00)

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You need to come to the point where you love this hand. Because it is a very profitable hand for you over time.

[xxGreat1xx]

hmmm, its hands like those that make you want to QUIT poker? It's hands like those that make the rest of us keep playing poker