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#34
11-10-2006, 12:44 PM
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Re: deepstack 25-50 hand vs jcmoussa
I think the 'fold preflop' camp is making a ton of sense. jcmoussa will probably make it expensive to draw, it's not easy to outplay someone out of position, and he's not going to pay off his whole stack if you hit the nuts. Meanwhile, you make a lot of second best hands and get yourself into difficult spots like this one where you have a bluff catcher but you don't know if you've induced a bluff.
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#35
11-10-2006, 12:56 PM
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Re: deepstack 25-50 hand vs jcmoussa
for everyone firmly in the fold camp, i just want to point out tha tjust because someone is tight preflop and plays few hands does not mean they do not make moves once in the pot... i think this accurately characterizes jc, he def has soe moves in him and might use his tight image to take advantage. i 'm trying to give him a hand here and i'm surprised that he bet the size he did (not bigger). i'd have to have played with him more to get a sense of the dynamic, but i think this is closer than people are making it seem.
does he really value bet AK here? I can see AQ but otherwise it seems like (often) he's hoping you had KQ ish and will fold river, esp given how passively you played it and how tight he has been.
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#36
11-10-2006, 01:02 PM
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Re: deepstack 25-50 hand vs jcmoussa
for the people thinking im a bit paranoid that he may be opening up his 3betting range, when he bet the river, i kissed my chips goodbye, said "this is probably a bad call" and called. he showed KTo. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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#37
11-10-2006, 01:21 PM
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Re: deepstack 25-50 hand vs jcmoussa
[ QUOTE ]
why on earth would you folding ONE hand (a really bad one in terms of calling) make you assume he's gonna go all crazy on you? Just fold and see what develops in future hands instead, then you'll know for sure. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Folding to a re raise once is not going to make him start doing it every time. As played though, ch/c the turn and fold the river.
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#38
11-10-2006, 01:41 PM
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Re: deepstack 25-50 hand vs jcmoussa
[ QUOTE ]
Haha, you and FV has turned me into a MONSTARR [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, stop tilting we want the old MDMA back !!
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#39
11-10-2006, 06:47 PM
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Re: deepstack 25-50 hand vs jcmoussa
[ QUOTE ]
for the people thinking im a bit paranoid that he may be opening up his 3betting range, when he bet the river, i kissed my chips goodbye, said "this is probably a bad call" and called. he showed KTo. [/ QUOTE ] I think you would've saved 1600 on the river had you bet the 800, rather than called it on the turn. Don't see how ch/c ch/f is an absolute better line than bet/fold turn or bet turn ch/f river.
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#40
11-10-2006, 07:39 PM
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Re: deepstack 25-50 hand vs jcmoussa
His line looks like AK to me. I can see him making this turn bet w/ lots of hands, but when he makes a small bet like that on the river it looks like he's put you on the correct hand and wants to extract value.
I dont think the turn call is bad- i'm sort of neutral about it, but I think folding the river is correct. Preflop is close IMHO. Given that you're so deep I guess it's okay, but if JC is a great deep stack player I think your implied odds go way down, and then you're basically going to be taking the worst of it OOP. I play a pretty close to the vest NLHE game, so my thoughts maybe a bit tight. I dont understand the part about "i'm willing to coinflip for stacks" and then the part about "i cant see coinflipping for these stacks". WTF? As played I'd lay down the river. Sure, you can go into metagame arguement mode and find a reason not to fold, but in this example, i'd lay down on the river. I assume he showed you a big ace if you called.
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