How did you guys do while I was away? - Page 4

Gurravasa · #31 09-04-2007, 07:16 PM

great post Heisenberg but i don't really agree with this:

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Your PFR should also be less because thers more incentive to overlimp and hands that play well heads up lose value.

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I play very loosepassive games, and I think the foldequity you get from raising pf is very valuable against passive players postflop. I used to overlimp in those games before, but now I never do it, and it seems to be a much more profitable approach. If it's one or two limps before me I always raise or fold.

Edit: BTW I checked and I get to see 52% of flops but only have 38% VPIP. What are your stats on that?

Carmine · #32 09-04-2007, 08:40 PM

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great post Heisenberg but i don't really agree with this:

[ QUOTE ]
Your PFR should also be less because thers more incentive to overlimp and hands that play well heads up lose value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play very loose passive games, and I think the foldequity you get from raising pf is very valuable against passive players postflop. I used to overlimp in those games before, but now I never do it, and it seems to be a much more profitable approach. If it's one or two limps before me I always raise or fold.

Edit: BTW I checked and I get to see 52% of flops but only have 38% VPIP. What are your stats on that?

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Well maybe it's a term interpretation thing, but loose/passives and folding equity don't usually belong in the same sentence.

sethypooh21 · #33 09-04-2007, 09:44 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
great post Heisenberg but i don't really agree with this:

[ QUOTE ]
Your PFR should also be less because thers more incentive to overlimp and hands that play well heads up lose value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play very loose passive games, and I think the foldequity you get from raising pf is very valuable against passive players postflop. I used to overlimp in those games before, but now I never do it, and it seems to be a much more profitable approach. If it's one or two limps before me I always raise or fold.

Edit: BTW I checked and I get to see 52% of flops but only have 38% VPIP. What are your stats on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well maybe it's a term interpretation thing, but loose/passives and folding equity don't usually belong in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to say the same thing...

Heisenb3rg · #34 09-04-2007, 10:54 PM

Exactly... If youre succsefully isolating a loose/passive limper, your not in a loose passive game...

Key point being multiple loose-passive players

sweetjazz · #35 09-04-2007, 11:54 PM

FWIW, I don't think 25/18 or so is that much less profitable than 29/21 and in some games (particularly when the fish in the game is overaggressive instead of too passive) I think the 25/18 numbers are better overall. The key if you are playing 25/18 is to try to have the image of a 30/22 or so. This often isn't that hard as the overaggressive players want to believe that you too are overaggressive, so if you are willing to spew in the right spots (maybe overplay a flush draw on the flop every now and then, make a thin value raise somewhere, etc.), then you get the benefits of having better starters on average than your opponents AND the ability to get paid off lightly.

Gurravasa · #36 09-05-2007, 12:53 AM

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Exactly... If youre succsefully isolating a loose/passive limper, your not in a loose passive game...

Key point being multiple loose-passive players

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. From the VP$IP/PFR comparison thread a while ago I noticed that I play more loosepassive games then anyone else here. Much of the value you get from raising pf in those games is that many passive players give up on turn. Also if you raise in position you can often take a freecard on the flop if you think your hand is to weak and there are to many opponents to bet.

Generally I often play like this after raising one or two limpers:

3-way or HU, Bet any flop, and lead most turns UI or not. I pick up so many pots on turn playing like this. Often I check/fold river against predictible players.

4-way or more: Take a freecard if possible UI on flop fold turn UI. Bet strong hands for value.

Off course there are always excpetions based on reads and stats but since I crush thoose games it can't be an awful play to raise or fold limpers.

Heisenb3rg · #37 09-05-2007, 01:49 AM

There are more positions than the button...

Gurravasa · #38 09-05-2007, 02:05 AM

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There are more positions than the button...

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and?

thepizzlefosho · #39 09-05-2007, 02:33 AM

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There are more positions than the button...

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and?

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he's saying that if you are at a table of loose passives you won't be able to successfully isolate them preflop, and thus you won't be the last to act every round. IE you aren't always on the button, and when you aren't the LPs tend to call preflop behind you.

Gurravasa · #40 09-05-2007, 02:43 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
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There are more positions than the button...

[/ QUOTE ]+

and?

[/ QUOTE ]

he's saying that if you are at a table of loose passives you won't be able to successfully isolate them preflop, and thus you won't be the last to act every round. IE you aren't always on the button, and when you aren't the LPs tend to call preflop behind you.

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no matter what position I'm more likely to get position if I raise. And even if I get callers behind me and it's 4-ways or more on the flop it's not unlikely that thoose caller will check behind if I don't bet the flop. Even loosepassive player are less inclined to call 2-bets cold than limping for 1 SB.

Putting an extra SB in the pot pf is a very small investment against LP:s and I can guarantee that it will pay of very well in the right games. The times I don't raise is when I complete from SB in mw-pots and when I can close the action by calling 1 SB from BB.

overlimping in loosepassive games sucks.