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#31
11-21-2006, 02:45 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
yes and i wasnt challenging u just the guy that called me out lol i mean this thread can be about the preflop play but there's not enough space to discuss preflop and postflop in this hand in one thread. The thinking preflop and on the flop goes much much deeper than people are saying. although i think a shove is probably best Since everyone is so caught up on the preflop of this hand.... You need to able to make moves like this once in a while. Would anyone in the chip leader's position doubt for a second that my hand was QQ+ with a very high likelyhood of KK+? I'm in the SB 4 betting the chip leader in mid pos who repopped a 2nd pos. No one will ever ever ever think this is a move, thats what makes it so great combined with being so deep it gives that added confirmation of a big hand. You just have to pick the right opponent and one that is somewhat predictable. Those are that are saying this works better with a smaller stack are very wrong. If he makes it 1600 and i had 5k and push my range is much wider to him than if i have 13k. Not saying its bad with a smaller stack but it just won't automatically project the KK+ range that u are looking to represent. Bluffing is all about what your hand looks like to your opponent. It's not to say that you should bluff everytime u can respresent a big hand, but in this specific situation(which i think it is not all that uncommon, facing a 3 bet from loose, huge stack) your hand looks be QQ+ 100% of the time and KK+ 80%-90% of the time. Combine this with the reraiser having a wide range and it makes it an amazing spot to bluff. Those saying being out of position here is bad are wrong, when running such a huge bluff preflop u need to get the first bet in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, I don't make this play often, but I don't dislike it all that much, the only reason I made that post, was your follow up posts make you seem close-minded, and possibly bad. After playing you a HUament today, I realize that you do not suck as much as I thought, and win 60/40's with the best of 'em. I'm not a big fan of backing down on challenges, so I'll still play you if you want, but I doubt either of us are very +EV. 
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#32
11-21-2006, 02:47 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
Those saying being out of position here is bad are wrong, when running such a huge bluff preflop u need to get the first bet in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. When we're left with only a ~PSB on the flop, first to act is obviously the best position. I posted a similar hand recently (but didn't say what the cards were) where I minraised from the BB and then lead the flop with air. However, as in this case, the flop was far from ideal because it was ace high. If I'm repping AA, which I was, then potting the flop (I was deeper) doesn't make much sense. It worked in that case, as perhaps in this, because villain had a ahnd that couldn't call but open pushing the flop isn't at all consistent with the hand(s) that you are repping. In this case, after pre-flop (and I wouldn't do pf unless this was live or I had some really good reads), I'm open pushing any flop whether I've connected or not, but I'd be less happy doing it on this flop (and I'm already unhappy having not taken it down pre-flop)
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#33
11-21-2006, 03:13 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] yes and i wasnt challenging u just the guy that called me out lol i mean this thread can be about the preflop play but there's not enough space to discuss preflop and postflop in this hand in one thread. The thinking preflop and on the flop goes much much deeper than people are saying. although i think a shove is probably best Since everyone is so caught up on the preflop of this hand.... You need to able to make moves like this once in a while. Would anyone in the chip leader's position doubt for a second that my hand was QQ+ with a very high likelyhood of KK+? I'm in the SB 4 betting the chip leader in mid pos who repopped a 2nd pos. No one will ever ever ever think this is a move, thats what makes it so great combined with being so deep it gives that added confirmation of a big hand. You just have to pick the right opponent and one that is somewhat predictable. Those are that are saying this works better with a smaller stack are very wrong. If he makes it 1600 and i had 5k and push my range is much wider to him than if i have 13k. Not saying its bad with a smaller stack but it just won't automatically project the KK+ range that u are looking to represent. Bluffing is all about what your hand looks like to your opponent. It's not to say that you should bluff everytime u can respresent a big hand, but in this specific situation(which i think it is not all that uncommon, facing a 3 bet from loose, huge stack) your hand looks be QQ+ 100% of the time and KK+ 80%-90% of the time. Combine this with the reraiser having a wide range and it makes it an amazing spot to bluff. Those saying being out of position here is bad are wrong, when running such a huge bluff preflop u need to get the first bet in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, I don't make this play often, but I don't dislike it all that much, the only reason I made that post, was your follow up posts make you seem close-minded, and possibly bad. After playing you a HUament today, I realize that you do not suck as much as I thought, and win 60/40's with the best of 'em. I'm not a big fan of backing down on challenges, so I'll still play you if you want, but I doubt either of us are very +EV. [/ QUOTE ] Thinly veiled back-out?
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#34
11-21-2006, 03:14 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
Those saying being out of position here is bad are wrong, when running such a huge bluff preflop u need to get the first bet in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. But how can you say this and then ask a dumb question like "now what should I do on the flop"?
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#35
11-21-2006, 03:48 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Those saying being out of position here is bad are wrong, when running such a huge bluff preflop u need to get the first bet in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. But how can you say this and then ask a dumb question like "now what should I do on the flop"? [/ QUOTE ] Yeh, this move is much better OOP. You got an ace high flop and also have a pair and backdoor. So this is an ideal situation to push.
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#36
11-21-2006, 03:55 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] yes and i wasnt challenging u just the guy that called me out lol i mean this thread can be about the preflop play but there's not enough space to discuss preflop and postflop in this hand in one thread. The thinking preflop and on the flop goes much much deeper than people are saying. although i think a shove is probably best Since everyone is so caught up on the preflop of this hand.... You need to able to make moves like this once in a while. Would anyone in the chip leader's position doubt for a second that my hand was QQ+ with a very high likelyhood of KK+? I'm in the SB 4 betting the chip leader in mid pos who repopped a 2nd pos. No one will ever ever ever think this is a move, thats what makes it so great combined with being so deep it gives that added confirmation of a big hand. You just have to pick the right opponent and one that is somewhat predictable. Those are that are saying this works better with a smaller stack are very wrong. If he makes it 1600 and i had 5k and push my range is much wider to him than if i have 13k. Not saying its bad with a smaller stack but it just won't automatically project the KK+ range that u are looking to represent. Bluffing is all about what your hand looks like to your opponent. It's not to say that you should bluff everytime u can respresent a big hand, but in this specific situation(which i think it is not all that uncommon, facing a 3 bet from loose, huge stack) your hand looks be QQ+ 100% of the time and KK+ 80%-90% of the time. Combine this with the reraiser having a wide range and it makes it an amazing spot to bluff. Those saying being out of position here is bad are wrong, when running such a huge bluff preflop u need to get the first bet in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, I don't make this play often, but I don't dislike it all that much, the only reason I made that post, was your follow up posts make you seem close-minded, and possibly bad. After playing you a HUament today, I realize that you do not suck as much as I thought, and win 60/40's with the best of 'em. I'm not a big fan of backing down on challenges, so I'll still play you if you want, but I doubt either of us are very +EV. [/ QUOTE ] Thinly veiled back-out? [/ QUOTE ] I would like to back-out, but won't.
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#38
11-21-2006, 04:08 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
Mostly it seems to me that OP isn't interested in hearing actual discussion of his play but wants to be told how great his move is. [/ QUOTE ] Freakonomics Yo
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#39
11-21-2006, 04:12 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
[ QUOTE ]
Mostly it seems to me that OP isn't interested in hearing actual discussion of his play but wants to be told how great his move is. [/ QUOTE ] Now THIS is funny. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#40
11-21-2006, 04:39 PM
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Re: 100 rebuy, huge move
The biggest problem I see with the play is this is the second hour of an online rebuy. You said both opponents were playing loose. Someone is likely to be used to gambling in the rebuy period, and decide his AQ may be good preflop. I would fold 85s and wait for a better spot. I wouldn't mind this kind of play near the bubble or ITM.
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