Leave Michael Vick Alone...

[CallMeIshmael]

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For those that support dog fighting, where do you personally draw the line, if you have one at all?

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Black people are property and people can do with their property what they wish.

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[vhawk01]

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I fail to see how otherwise intelligent people do not understand the difference between torturing animals to death for the sole purpose of entertainment and the slaughter of animals for the purpose of providing food.

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Niss - the difference is one of the slightest degree and is often blurred if it exists at all, for instance hunters take pleasure in the kill, even though they also eat, and many hunters kill solely for the sake of killing. No one, except for extreme animal lovers, thinks trophy hunters should be jailed. So again, please give me a real reason why dog fighting should be illegal or even considered immoral.

Also, take for instance traps, a very very cruel way to kill an animal. Not all trappers eat their kills as well.

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Deriving pleasure from a pork chop or even tracking down a deer (which is challenging and requires skill), or even from wearing fur is much different and more acceptable than taking pleasure from watching animals just get hurt. The last is just cruelty.

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They derive pleasure from watching them FIGHT, then, if that makes you happier. Getting hurt is simply an unavoidable consequence of the desire to see them fight.

Getting killed is an unavoidable consequence of the desire to see them smothered in gravy next to some mashed potatoes.

[andyfox]

1) Out of sight, out of mind. We eat meat because we don't see the slaughterhouse. Same reason we don't give money to starving or measles-infected kids in Africa. If they lived next store, we'd give, instead of playing poker. Watch the ferris wheel scene in The Third Man wherein Orson Welles talks about the "dots" on the ground, or the scene in Collateral where Tom Cruise asks Jamie Foxx what he did for the people who were killed in Africa.

2) We still generally prefer "humane" killing to methods that we would consider barbaric. I would imagine most people who are in favor of capital punishment would prefer quick lethal injections to slow torture. Especially if they were forced to watch it.

3) People love dogs. I think I remember seeing a survey wherein a majority of people said that, given the choice, they would save their dog from drowning rather than their best friend. Shelly Berman, the old stand-up comedian who plays Larry David's father on Curb Your Enthusiam, used to tell a joke where he ended up throwing his mother-in-law and his dog out a window. He says he used to get tons of letters from people objecting to hurting the dog, never one from anyone objecting to hurting his mother-in-law. Vick's finished. Whereas Kobe Bryant, for example, is not.

[bobman0330]

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I fail to see how otherwise intelligent people do not understand the difference between torturing animals to death for the sole purpose of entertainment and the slaughter of animals for the purpose of providing food.

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Niss - the difference is one of the slightest degree and is often blurred if it exists at all, for instance hunters take pleasure in the kill, even though they also eat, and many hunters kill solely for the sake of killing. No one, except for extreme animal lovers, thinks trophy hunters should be jailed. So again, please give me a real reason why dog fighting should be illegal or even considered immoral.

Also, take for instance traps, a very very cruel way to kill an animal. Not all trappers eat their kills as well.

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Deriving pleasure from a pork chop or even tracking down a deer (which is challenging and requires skill), or even from wearing fur is much different and more acceptable than taking pleasure from watching animals just get hurt. The last is just cruelty.

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They derive pleasure from watching them FIGHT, then, if that makes you happier. Getting hurt is simply an unavoidable consequence of the desire to see them fight.


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[censored]. Do you think the torturing-to-death angle is just a coincidence?

[Copernicus]

When cows are routinely house trained, sit at their owners feet, play catch or fetch, assist their owners in hunting for other animals, protect their owners from attack, guard the owners property, etc. then they will probably become protected in our society as well.

[Vagos]

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I think it needs to be pointed out is that dog fighting dogs are bred precisely for fighting. That animal would not otherwise exist except that someone bred it for fighting. And it wants to fight too, trust me on that, it's bred so that in its heart of hearts, it wants to fight.


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Were they also bred to be electrocuted, drowned or hung after their fighting days were over?

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So, if you want to call Michael Vick a murderer and call him evil incarnate, then make sure that all of the following apply to yourself:

1. You are 100% vegan, and by this I mean, not only do you refrain from eating the delicious flesh of murdered cows, pigs, chickens, lambs, calves (we'll leave fish out since they don't have any feelings)--you also refrain from wearing leather goods and furs.

2. You do not take, nor have you ever taken any pharmaceutical drug that was ever tested on dogs.

I think it's interesting to observe that Americans don't get so upset about bull fighting, which is even crueler than dog fighting. Perhaps, its because that sport is harder to separate from all those delicious burger places you drive by every day.

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Come on man, you honestly don't see the difference between slicing a pigs throat and watching it bleed to death and finding the act of drowning or hanging a dog as slightly disturbing?

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Keep the comparison consistent please. Alternatively, I could have changed it to "the difference between eating meat and hanging out with friends" if the point was to diminish them both, rather than sensationalize them both. But you don't get to diminish one and sensationalize the other.

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Stop being intentionally obtuse.

First off, I'm not the one who slices a pigs throat and watches it bleed to death, so your little "Gotcha FYP" doesn't work. I simply eat the meat. I have no clue how, when or where the pig was killed. Second, I can assure you it was killed so that I could eat it, not because its owner got some kind of sick pleasure out of watching it be slaughtered. There's a difference and you know it.

Also, I didn't sensationlize anything. Read the report about the indictment. Google is your friend.

[adios]

Hey I own dogs and a lot of what I do with my dogs PETA has a problem with. So when the PETA folks get out in front of something and are given a great deal of positive exposure that is not something I like. Several things that I've read from their site are wrong when it comes to being cruel to dogs.

With that said I'll point out a couple of things. Do we know that that dogs don't want to fight? I've interceded in plenty of dog fights that started. Dogs are territorial and it's not exactly like they need all that much encouragement. Just go to a big city dog park sometime.


Temperment is a heritable trait and you are right that dogs can and are bred with extremely aggressive temperments. Likewise many pure breeds have had temperment issues in the past and have sought to change temperment to a non agressive one through the dogs selected for breeding (bloodhounds are one such breed).

I think it's fair to say that dog fighting for sport is a moral issue. It's not my cup of tea either. But I'm sure that there are people that think what I do with my dogs is morally wrong. As far as torturing animals, that seems to be unnecessary and it's clear that nearly everyone considers certain things to be torture. Not sure where to draw the line though because I'm sure some PETA folks would say that I torture my dogs and I don't.

We'll just have to see what the case is against Vick and see how he defends himself before we can get a clear idea on what he did exactly.

[Vagos]

Just as an aside, for me the issue isn't about an "animals right to life" or whatever. I'm a free market loving anarchist but some things should just make you personally take a step and say to yourself, "Wow, that kind of behavior is [censored] up." Torturing dogs to death falls into that category for me.

[guids]

On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog.

[slickpoppa]

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On the one hand, yes, dogfights seem like a terrible thing, on the other hand, how much pleasure do we get out of watching 2 humans pummel eachother in a boxing/UFC/etc fight? whats the real difference if everything is regulated correctly? Boxers enjoy fighting, and are taught how to from a young age, whats the diff if we do it with a dog.

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a) Human fights aren't to the death
b) Human fighters choose to participate in fights, whereas dogs are pretty much forced to fight if they are owned by a particular person
c) The dogs who are bred for fighting are just treated like [censored] in general