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#1
08-03-2007, 01:07 PM
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Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em study group
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Matt, Sunny & Ed - I've just finished reading the book and I loved it. It was a great kick-start after taking 2 months off from poker. In my estimation your book was as substantial a contribution to the NL community as SSNL was to the limit community, and that's saying quite a lot. I'd recommend your book to anyone learning NL. I like the idea of a study group, and I'd like to contribute & participate. I'm afraid that the study group would be severely hamstrung -- even actively sabotaged -- in many forums here b/c much of your advice differs from 2p2 standards. This is usually met with violence. Case in point, just look at all the criticism you are receiving from people who haven't even read the book. They read an excerpt somewhere, drew some conclusions, and the haterade started flowing. I agree with you however that the uNL forum would make a better home, as it is less gratuitously combative. If the study group happens in uNL, I'll try to participate. Grats on the book. [/ QUOTE ] Hes alive! I also agree, and I will say that whilst vigorous debate will be encouraged, I am stating now that I will both monitor and participate in the study group and will hand otut bans for flaming. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with all of this and I am glad that the ideas in this book will be able to be discussed freely. 
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#2
08-03-2007, 01:26 PM
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Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em study group
Working through the book now. I have a couple plane rides this weekend, so I should be able to finish then. Very much looking forward to a study group/discussion.
Like what I've read so far.
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#3
08-03-2007, 03:38 AM
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Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em study group
[ QUOTE ]
Matt, Sunny & Ed - I've just finished reading the book and I loved it. It was a great kick-start after taking 2 months off from poker. In my estimation your book was as substantial a contribution to the NL community as SSNL was to the limit community, and that's saying quite a lot. I'd recommend your book to anyone learning NL. I like the idea of a study group, and I'd like to contribute & participate. I'm afraid that the study group would be severely hamstrung -- even actively sabotaged -- in many forums here b/c much of your advice differs from 2p2 standards. This is usually met with violence. Case in point, just look at all the criticism you are receiving from people who haven't even read the book. They read an excerpt somewhere, drew some conclusions, and the haterade started flowing. I agree with you however that the uNL forum would make a better home, as it is less gratuitously combative. If the study group happens in uNL, I'll try to participate. Grats on the book. [/ QUOTE ] Grunch, Thanks a lot. I'm really glad it hit home for you the way we intended it to. Whatever you guys want with the study group is totally fine with us. -Sunny
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#6
08-03-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em study group
Sunny and Matt,
I'm sorry if it's common knowledge, but can I ask what your backgrounds are? I mean, are you long time 2+2ers who've decided to write a book, online pros (how long for, what limits, your book was originally titles small stakes nl right?), live players, all of the above, etc. I'm just curious as I don't know anything about you
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#7
08-03-2007, 04:19 PM
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Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em study group
[ QUOTE ]
Sunny and Matt, I'm sorry if it's common knowledge, but can I ask what your backgrounds are? I mean, are you long time 2+2ers who've decided to write a book, online pros (how long for, what limits, your book was originally titles small stakes nl right?), live players, all of the above, etc. I'm just curious as I don't know anything about you [/ QUOTE ] i was on 2+2 in 2000. missed the re-registration for a while and so am poster #750. real number is probably around #150. i apprenticed in the $10-$10-$20 $40-to-go nl game at Lucky Chances in 2001 and have played nl almost exclusively since.
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#9
08-07-2007, 10:59 PM
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Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em study group
the great derosnec - perpetual resident of 25nl and 50nl - has finished the book.
a terrific book because of the SPR sections. now when i read threads, i often want to respond, "your preflop raise size is wrong." with that said, i will offer a criticism. the SPR stuff is repeatedly touted by the authors because it makes postflop play easier. but at our stakes, 99% of our opponents play straightforward. so we don't have to worry much about being put in awkward situations when our SPR is 14 or whatever, because our opponents are generally easy to read - they take the same lines over and over and my db of a few hundred thousand hands confirms that (check-minraise = big hand, donk = crap, open shove when flush hits = flush, double barrel is a real hand, pf reraise is AA-KK/AK sometimes QQ, etc). so SPR, assuming we understand the various micro lines and assuming we are proficient at equity calculations potsflop (range, potsize, equity), doesn't seem quite as helpful at our stakes as it would be at higher stakes. but that doesn't mean it's not helpful. i anticipate i will be raising different sizes preflop now. raising the same size with SCs as i would with AA just doesn't make sense anymore after reading the book. plus our opponents are not very good, so no need to go for same size pfr size to disguise our hands. plus it's interesting how a little difference in the pfr size makes a big difference in SPR. also interesting was the tables, which show what a crappy stack size 100bbs is for top pair/overpair type of hands, although again i'll say again that most of our opponents don't put pressure us on us postflop without big hands, so playing with 100bbs is not as difficult at our stakes than at higher ones. anyways, my two cents. very good book.
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#10
08-07-2007, 11:30 PM
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Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em study group
[ QUOTE ]
a terrific book because of the SPR sections. now when i read threads, i often want to respond, "your preflop raise size is wrong." with that said, i will offer a criticism. [/ QUOTE ] thank you and fire away! [ QUOTE ] the SPR stuff is repeatedly touted by the authors because it makes postflop play easier. but at our stakes, 99% of our opponents play straightforward. so we don't have to worry much about being put in awkward situations when our SPR is 14 or whatever, because our opponents are generally easy to read - they take the same lines over and over and my db of a few hundred thousand hands confirms that (check-minraise = big hand, donk = crap, open shove when flush hits = flush, double barrel is a real hand, pf reraise is AA-KK/AK sometimes QQ, etc). [/ QUOTE ] that is more than awesome. and true. SPR will help more against your 2+2 opponents and when you move up, but for now mostly you gotta play more hands. would you believe 5-10 6-max nl on Party started that way? it was incredible. you'da killed it.
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