Patriots get caught with camera man taping NY Jets coaches playcalling

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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On field cheating >>> off-field cheating.

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perception wise, yes, reality-wise, no.

but people actually think that the Pats cheating went so far and beyond the other guys that they deserve a penalty degrees of magnitude worse. the Steelers lose $400k against the cap and a 3rd round pick 6 years ago, but now the Pats should lose 2 1st rounders and have their coach suspended???

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

On field cheating >>> off-field cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

perception wise, yes, reality-wise, no.

but people actually think that the Pats cheating went so far and beyond the other guys that they deserve a penalty degrees of magnitude worse. the Steelers lose $400k against the cap and a 3rd round pick 6 years ago, but now the Pats should lose 2 1st rounders and have their coach suspended???

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I am not arguing that. I think a one game suspension for Belichick might've been fair in addition to the penalties already given, but the league didn't do it for 3 reasons -

A: SD vs NE is a huge huge game - don't want to mar it with 'well if belichick had been coaching, blah blah blah' - make the game the focus, not some suspension whose effect is dubious.

B: Obv Belichick won't be on the sidelines but he won't be watching Desperate Housewives at home. There'd be ways of contacting him, which would just bring up the whole cheating spectre again. I think for that reason the league forwent a suspension altogether.

C: probably incidental, but this would've played hell with betting lines.

and you know that perception = reality when it comes to things like this.

[capone0]

I think they should inflate the penalty. Remove all the SB titles. Dismantle the team and sell the pieces to other teams for nickles on the dollar.

Honestly, it's probally more than fair. This is worse than Bonds b/c when Bonds did it it was legal to the Baseball rules. This was was b/c first they got warned last year.

The thing is this is a presedence now, a future penalty on par with this will get the same penalty or worse. Honestly most of those cap penalties weren't looked at being that bad. The soft cap back in the day was more of a joke then it is today with a hard cap.

[xorbie]

The thing that confuses me about all of this is that all the other players seemed to be falling over themselves to defend the Patriots during all the interviews I saw. Is it because they all cheat also, or just because this is what they were told to say by higher ups (which makes less sense to me given the harsh punishment)?

[Gregatron]

It's kind of moot to talk about what is fair regarding past cap cheating versus this "spy" cheating. Goodell is showing that he is not the motherf-er to be trifled with. Let some team mess with the cap and heads will roll.

[capone0]

Also of note, this is a new Commish then previous penalties, and look at what he's done. I like that he has a lot of control but as you can see he's almost taken a lot of the off-field stuff to the next level to clean it up. Expect similar punishments going further. Goodell has been super strict so far in cleaning his sport.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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and you know that perception = reality when it comes to things like this.

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agree. but I think that many people (not you, but some posters and some national media) arguing that the Pats should have been hit worse have no idea what the previous penalties were, or have stopped to actually consider if what the Pats did was actually worse. and that bothers me.

and for people who are discounting the important of the Pats pick b/c it will likely be a low one, here is the recent history of Pats 1st round picks: (from football guys)

* 2000 — No first round pick
* 2001 — Richard Seymour (6th overall)
* 2002 — Daniel Graham (21st overall)
* 2003 — Ty Warren (13th overall)
* 2004 — Vince Wilfork (21st overall)
* 2004 — Ben Watson (32nd overall)
* 2005 — Logan Mankins (32nd overall)
* 2006 — Laurence Maroney (21st overall)
* 2007 — Brandon Meriweather (24th overall)

all of those guys, except the current rookie, are/were starters for the best team in the NFL. (Graham was traded, Seymour hurt). Mankins and Watson were the 2 picks they got #32. both of these guys would be big losses if they were suddenly taken away.

[Edge34]

Interesting side note that should put the difference in commissioners in another light:

Vikings coach Mike Tice was fined $100k for scalping his Super Bowl tickets. This has nothing to do with, well, anything football related, and as we can tell by the Purple's record under him, it certainly didn't lead to any extra wins.

The $500k against a guy who likely ordered what he knew to be illegal spying methods despite written warning from the new commish seems to be a bit light. Say what you want, I think ordering cheating is more than 5x as bad as selling your Super Bowl tickets to make a few bucks when you're the lowest paid head coach in the NFL (not that that job's pay sucks at all).

Also - first round picks are big to take away, but when you leave a team with what could be a top 10 pick it hurts a LOT less, so let's not act like the loss of 1 first round pick which will be in the 20s (and probably the late 20s) will kill this team. And remember, everybody's golden boy, Mr. Brady, was a 6th round pick (199th overall).

[CharlieDontSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

On field cheating >>> off-field cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

perception wise, yes, reality-wise, no.

but people actually think that the Pats cheating went so far and beyond the other guys that they deserve a penalty degrees of magnitude worse. the Steelers lose $400k against the cap and a 3rd round pick 6 years ago, but now the Pats should lose 2 1st rounders and have their coach suspended???

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with the whole suspend BB thing is it isn't that big of a deal or punishment.

They're called telephones, computers, etc

Are they going to lock BB in like some type of Magneto secret chamber so he has no communication from the outside world?

The 1st round pick is huge given the Pats skill at drafting players. For most teams its like whatever...there is a 50/50 chance that guy even becomes a decent starter. For the Pats it is almost a given that they lose a starter who they would have for 4-5 years at peanuts compared to a similar player at his position.

A lot of coaches/NFL scouts etc have argued that they don't even believe it was that huge of an advantage over the normal forms of spying and cheating that have gone on. Carrying an extra mike to pick up the QB audibles, miking a defensive player to do the same, grabbing players who are cut to get the teams plays/tendencies etc, spying and stealing signs without using a camera etc.

Its a huge deal because its BB who rubs people the wrong way because A he's the best coach in the league and the media constantly reminds everyone about it 24/7.

If it was say Mike Holmgren and the Seahawks...it wouldn't be a blip...but no one would be like they have to forfeit the game. Suspend him for the season...invaliadate all their past accomplishments etc etc. The outcry is 5x greater because its the Pats, who are basically the Yankees of the NFL, and BB.

People want an excuse to say the Pats didn't earn their Superbowls etc and that Brady and BB and everyone on the team is not actually that good. This gives people an out to try to justify that belief even though it is a totally bogus one.

[CharlieDontSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting side note that should put the difference in commissioners in another light:

Vikings coach Mike Tice was fined $100k for scalping his Super Bowl tickets. This has nothing to do with, well, anything football related, and as we can tell by the Purple's record under him, it certainly didn't lead to any extra wins.

The $500k against a guy who likely ordered what he knew to be illegal spying methods despite written warning from the new commish seems to be a bit light. Say what you want, I think ordering cheating is more than 5x as bad as selling your Super Bowl tickets to make a few bucks when you're the lowest paid head coach in the NFL (not that that job's pay sucks at all).

Also - first round picks are big to take away, but when you leave a team with what could be a top 10 pick it hurts a LOT less, so let's not act like the loss of 1 first round pick which will be in the 20s (and probably the late 20s) will kill this team. And remember, everybody's golden boy, Mr. Brady, was a 6th round pick (199th overall).

[/ QUOTE ]

$500 is the max allowed apparantly