Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[Fishstation]

I don't maintain a 70k FT account, nor do I play at the limits where bots are an issue. But from a customer standpoint, it is more important to me that I know my funds won't be seized in a witch hunt, than to know FT is a bot free site.

[Nairb]

[ QUOTE ]
There'd be no benefit to keeping that fact secret; all it does is make them look bad. If they told accused botter what she did wrong, why wouldn't they come on here and say "we can't reveal what botter was caught doing, but we told botter EXACTLY what she did so she could attempt to clear her name"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point and they have not done that. It may well be true that they havent told the accused what they found but you have to admit it is hard to believe they took 70k and did not explain why, at least to the accused bot user. I can understand them not posting damning evidence here in an anonymous forum but if they have not explained to OP what they found that is inexcusable. They could explain what they found without divulging how they found it dont ya think?

[Wahoo73]

Indeed, in BeatMe's original post she quoted an e-mail from FTP saying "We have detected an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating illegal bot use."

So, the logical inference we can draw from FTPSean's "coroporate speak" reply is that the TOS violation to which he refers is in fact illegal bot usage. However, it certainly would be reassuring if he had explicitly stated as much.

Although I'm squarely in the "undecided" camp on this particular imbroglio, I am somewhat suspicious of the e-mail exchange with FTP that BeatMe posted inasmuch as she provided no dates and there appear to be gaps in both context and chronology. I'd suggest to BeatMe that she might bolster her argument by posting a complete, unedited and chronological record of all communication between her and FTP regarding this matter.

[Nairb]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't maintain a 70k FT account, nor do I play at the limits where bots are an issue. But from a customer standpoint, it is more important to me that I know my funds won't be seized in a witch hunt, than to know FT is a bot free site.

[/ QUOTE ]

But thats just the issue. OP has sold it as a witch hunt and yes Crazy Mike seems just that(crazy) so how can you discern who to believe? A player with 70k playing at the limits they did would generate a hell of a lot of rake anually. FT would be stupid to do this without absolute certainty she used a bot. Sounds to me like they believe 100% she used a bot,at least part of the time. We will probably never see proof one way or the other. Just glad I play on Stars. I do not see many posts, some but not near as much as the other sites, addressing these kinds of issues.

[Nairb]

[ QUOTE ]
Indeed, in BeatMe's original post she quoted an e-mail from FTP saying "We have detected an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating illegal bot use."

So, the logical inference we can draw from FTPSean's "coroporate speak" reply is that the TOS violation to which he refers is in fact illegal bot usage. However, it certainly would be reassuring if he had explicitly stated as much.

Although I'm squarely in the "undecided" camp on this particular imbroglio, I am somewhat suspicious of the e-mail exchange with FTP that BeatMe posted inasmuch as she provided no dates and there appear to be gaps in both context and chronology. I'd suggest to BeatMe that she might bolster her argument by posting a complete, unedited and chronological record of all communication between her and FTP regarding this matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. There are holes in these stores big enough to drive a car through. Story just does not add up.

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
Then let them identify the XYZ software that they found, and how they found it.

They refuse, but still keep the stolen money.

Something stinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not very good with hypotheticals, are you.

And Nairb:

[ QUOTE ]
They could explain what they found without divulging how they found it dont ya think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but then again, maybe not.

Its certainly possible that divulging what what they found will in itself let botters avoid that thing in the future. Cat and mouse, and they don't want to tip their hand.

[Bobo Fett]

Agree completely...that's what I've been saying from the beginning. On one hand, it is hard to believe that they haven't done so, but on the other, unfortunately it isn't. It seems that most poker sites' security measures/account locking is shrouded in secrecy, to the point of being ludicrous. I understand they can't be divulging information that would enable others to defraud them, but there has to be something they can share.

[Guthrie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How is this dumb? A bot presupposes there's a computer not only making decisions but executing them, If she's a bot, she can't play without her computer. If she's playing the same game on FTP's computer, while they watch, then she's not a bot. Case closed.

What's dumb is FTP claiming they're 100% certain she's a bot, stealing her money, then refusing to show even a shred of evidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she programmed the bot she would be intimately knowledgeable of the bot's tendencies and playstyle.

For example, I wrote a compiler in college. It's generally a large, complex piece of software. I could emulate it by hand by the time I was done with that beast (had to do it to debug).

I have no doubt she could reproduce the same play live as online, but it would still leave questions about her using an automated program at home.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I accuse you of using a compiler, you agree to let me watch you attempt to compile programs manually, and you fail miserably to do so, then my accusation is almost certainly correct.

If you show up, correctly compile the programs manually, in real time, then my accusation is far less than 100% correct. I am now forced to prove that you were using a compiler rather than doing it yourself.

I cannot prove that, so I just refuse to offer any evidence whatsoever, but steal your money anyway.

[Guthrie]

[ QUOTE ]
With so much talk about FT not releasing their findings in this case how can it be known that FT did not divulge their evidence to the accused bot programmer. If they did would she admit it? I find it very difficult to believe they would post damning evidence in this forum. I am sure their are some privacy issues at stake too. It sucks to lose that much dough but third party info will never solve the arguments here.The only ones who truly knows the truth is beatme and FT investigations.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only one who knows the truth is beatme. FT cannot possibly know the truth with 100% certainty. They have her money. They don't need to prove anything, or know the truth.

[Guthrie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then let them identify the XYZ software that they found, and how they found it.

They refuse, but still keep the stolen money.

Something stinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not very good with hypotheticals, are you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm far better with them than you, and I'm fairly certain that I have far more experience in investigation than you.