Barry Bonds indicted

[RedBean]

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Or was he just the biggest part of a far reaching investigation that some high ups thought was a good idea as part of the "war on drugs?"


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Considering the investigation started at the agent level, within the IRS......

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Was he targeted as the main piece of this investigation? Sure he was. Is that fair? Probably not. But it comes with the territory in todays society, for better or worse.


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Not complaining, just calling it like it is.....no excuses though, hell, I'm excited to finally see the system work and him be afforded his day in court.

He can handle the pressure, be it MLB, the media, or the entire United States of America.

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The offer of immunity being a "gotcha" tactic is silly to think. Even if Bonds was the "big fish" that some people were after, the overall scope of the investigation was much larger and could have benefited greatly from Bonds cooperating.

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How do you explain the "big scope" of the original investigation netting 4 convictions for no more than 4 months as part of a quick plea...yet, they have no problem having Greg sit in jail for over a year because he won't testify against Bonds?

That tells you all you need to know about their priorities.

They've spent almost 5 years and countless amounts of money, and you're really thinking it was for those 2-3 month plea bargains?

I know you like to argue just to argue, but c'mon man...

[RedBean]

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RB,

In the other thread you said:

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Montgomery is a confessed cheat and a convicted criminal

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when discrediting his comments.

I just want to make sure that you use that same thought process when it comes to Conte and Anderson, as they are both convicted criminals.

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Why are you suddenly so worried about Vic and Greg's testimony?

Don't worry though, you're not the only one. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[chim17]

This thread went to hell.

NT, you lose all credibility making it so personal yesterday. I don't care one way or another about Bonds. I do care about lying under oath. You draw all these silly conclusions about reporters, etc (which are also bad).

This isn't a race deal, its not a baseball deal, its a lying under oath deal to me (I know there are a lot of people that it isn't just a perjury deal to, keep reading). If you lied under oath you would get in a lot of trouble -- why should Bonds play under a different set of rules? Because he was one of the greatest ever at a game? I don't even care much about the steroids (if he used them).. baseballs rules were so dumb you can't go after him for that. People shouldn't lie in court, thats pretty much what it comes down to here. If I lied in court I would expect whatever punishment the courts seemed fit if I was found it. If Bonds lied in court he should do the same.

I do expect there are some folks that will have a perverse satisfaction if he goes down. Maybe you incorrectly lumped me into that crowd. That is really gross if people will be happy he goes down in this whole deal. And, I know those people do exist. I find them pretty appaling myself. But everyone that is not offended by the judicial process does not fit in that camp.

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Lying to this grand jury is the rough equivalent of paying an extortionist with counterfeit bills.

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Wow.

[Wynton]

As a criminal defense lawyer who has handled federal perjury cases, I must say I have mixed reactions.

On one hand, I hate Bonds as much as the next guy and, after reading the book about him, have no doubt that he is as dirty as can be, not to mention a real creep.

But on the other hand, I consider this just another example of how the government unfairly uses the perjury trap. They don't have evidence of an actual federal crime, so they get Bonds to answer questions under oath for the purpose of catching him in a lie.

I know the comeback to this point is that the government had a legitimate interest in investigating steroids. But when it appears that an investigation is largely motivated to nab one particular, high profile individual, the entire process becomes tainted.

Still, I fully expect Bonds to be convicted.

[RedBean]

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This isn't a race deal, its not a baseball deal, its a lying under oath deal to me (I know there are a lot of people that it isn't just a perjury deal to, keep reading). If you lied under oath you would get in a lot of trouble -- why should Bonds play under a different set of rules? Because he was one of the greatest ever at a game? I don't even care much about the steroids (if he used them).. baseballs rules were so dumb you can't go after him for that. People shouldn't lie in court, thats pretty much what it comes down to here. If I lied in court I would expect whatever punishment the courts seemed fit if I was found it. If Bonds lied in court he should do the same.

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Totally agree with you here, and 100% respect your opinion on it.....as it's in a much appreciated contrast to that segment of folks who just hate Bonds and are going to argue about anything to justify their hate.

If Bonds is convicted, he should most definately be punished just like you or me, or anyone, and baseball players shouldn't get any special treatment or attention.

I certainly think he has gotten special attention from the Govt in convening three GJ's to muster a last-second indictment....but that was all within the rule of law, and he shouldn't get special treatement to make up for it.

That said...just like you or I, he gets his fair trial, and if acquitted then it counts just the same. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[JordanIB]

Love the spin now that this is great day for Barry because now finally he can present his side of the story. LOL.

I gotta give RB and others credit, you play the internet "argue for the sake of arguing game very well". It has become clearer in recent weeks that he fully believes that Barry has done steroids and cheated the game, lied under oath etc., etc., but gets off on the thrill of the debate.

The post-indictment posts pretty much clinch this.

[RedBean]

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On one hand, I hate Bonds as much as the next guy and, after reading the book about him, have no doubt that he is as dirty as can be, not to mention a real creep.


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It's okay to hate him...so long as it doesn't seep into your objectivity on obvious logical reasoning, which it doesn't appear to have done.

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But on the other hand, I consider this just another example of how the government unfairly uses the perjury trap. They don't have evidence of an actual federal crime, so they get Bonds to answer questions under oath for the purpose of catching him in a lie.

I know the comeback to this point is that the government had a legitimate interest in investigating steroids. But when it appears that an investigation is largely motivated to nab one particular, high profile individual, the entire process becomes tainted.


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Nice insight.

[RedBean]

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Love the spin now that this is great day for Barry because now finally he can present his side of the story. LOL.


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It is progress...considering the govt has been playing this drawn out waiting game for 4 years.....there comes a time when you have to either shit or get off the pot.

That time is here, and now Bonds finally gets a chance to confront his accusers, and defend himself at a fair trial.

For anyone who is sincerely and objectively interested in learning all the facts and hearing both sides, this is most definately a much anticipated development.



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It has become clearer in recent weeks that he fully believes that Barry has done steroids and cheated the game, lied under oath etc., etc., but gets off on the thrill of the debate.


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So, aside from hating Bonds...you also read minds....

Sweet...

[JordanIB]

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Love the spin now that this is great day for Barry because now finally he can present his side of the story. LOL.


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It is progress...considering the govt has been playing this drawn out waiting game for 4 years.....there comes a time when you have to either shit or get off the pot.

That time is here, and now Bonds finally gets a chance to confront his accusers, and defend himself at a fair trial.

For anyone who is sincerely and objectively interested in learning all the facts and hearing both sides, this is most definately a much anticipated development.



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It has become clearer in recent weeks that he fully believes that Barry has done steroids and cheated the game, lied under oath etc., etc., but gets off on the thrill of the debate.


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So, aside from hating Bonds...you also read minds....

Sweet...

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I have no hate for Barry Bonds. I have nothing but the utmost apathy for him.

Nor do I read minds. I did, however, read a few hundred posts.

But that's right, you definitely state that I hate Bonds when I have never said anything of the sort, but I "read minds" when I say you believe certain things about Bonds that you have never said of the sort.

Funny how that works....

[Dids]

IF there's one really funadmental thing to understand about this, and Red Bean's arguments is that

"Barry has done steroids"

and

"cheated the game"

Are not the same damn thing in the least. This is a really, really simple idea that a lot of people fail to understand.

Also a GIANT WTF at the suggesting that gambling on games does't change how you play.