Neteller Update...

[Zele]

No one has gotten a straight answer from NT. The official line seems to be 6-8 weeks for a check, but some people have been told there is no timetable. I don't believe requesting courier will do anything for you, except save you a few days when the checks are finally cut.

[Emperor]

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i've been in vegas for the past week, so i'm a bit out of the loop.

if i request a nt withdrawal by check, will there be any problems? when will i get it? if i request it by courier, will that solve anything?

thanks.

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NT Check: Between 2 months and never depending on who you ask

Current solution seems to be transfer your NT balance to a Euro "friend", "friend" deposits to pokersite, request a check from pokersite.

[Sniper]

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sniper could you comment on why cashiers checks couldn't be used? surely there is a bank somewhere in europe will to print alot of cashiers checks.

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Their bank may not be able to handle a massive 200 million+ (could be much higher) withdrawal (on top of regular business) in 1 day (or 1 week, or 1 month).


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but this is the definition of solvency. neteller should be able to pay their debts with cash or have their money tied up in investments so safe they are able to instantly get a credit line against it.
what if pokerstars had huge deposit bonus last month and 90% of money was trying to leave neteller? would you expect to have to wait 6-8 weeks for your money? a company that deals entirely in the transit of money should have alot higher % of cash on hand than a bank

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Unabridged,

When you deposit your money in your checking or savings account, you expect that you will be able to withdraw it at any time...

When Neteller deposits money in a Bank, it has the same expectation...

However, the Bank doesn't stick your money in the vault and leave it there waiting for you to come and get it!

The BANK lends out the money you have on deposit to other people...

If everyone who had money in the Bank suddenly went to the bank to withdraw... the Bank would have a problem... cause the CASH is not in the vault.

When a major customer like Neteller wants to withdraw all its funds... you have a smaller but not insubstantially similar effect. Which is compounded by the other events going on.

[MiltonFriedman]

In reorganization matters, unsecured creditors often prefer to get SOME cash now, rather than wait.

I am NOT saying Neteller is not going to pay or is going to file for a formal reorganization. I am interestd however in how THIS market prices and allocates risk for US payments.

Wht is an appropriate discount for Neteller unsecured claims, 25 % ?

[Richas]

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In reorganization matters, unsecured creditors often prefer to get SOME cash now, rather than wait.

I am NOT saying Neteller is not going to pay or is going to file for a formal reorganization. I am interestd however in how THIS market prices and allocates risk for US payments.

Wht is an appropriate discount for Neteller unsecured claims, 25 % ?

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A lot less of a discount, sorry this is a repeat from the British Complaints thread.

This link is to the Neteller Investors site. The presentation on their latest interim results (Sep 06) contains some interesting information for anyone concerned about where their cash is and the scale of the problem

http://tinyurl.com/yvrecr

Skipping over the revenues and business plan stuff the interesting bits are about the total deposits and the cash position for the company.

Slide 13 is the most important as it shows where the cash is - EU Customer money in trust $48.1m, owing to customers merchants $220.1m (in trust accounts), $28.8m company cash (restricted) in trust accounts - this is the money put into trust to cover cash in transfer and a few other company bits and bobs where the money is there but basically spent ie share options....then there is the company cash of $135.9m which is not held in trust.

Most of this money is invested not really cash it would take time to access it. On average per day Neteller deals with about $4.7m of transfers plus their normal business transactions the readily accessible cash would be scaled to meet this demand. They can't access the EU money to meet US withdrawals but the strong cash position of the company roughly equal to or just below US customers deposits should be reassuring especially as the US customers money is there - in trust accounts.

Looks to me like the money is there, they have logistics problems and issues accessing the cash immediately but any company used to dealing with $5m a day was suddenly swamped with requests for up to $200m and a set of US banks unwilling to deal with them at all would need time to pay out and struggle to answer the phones/complaints.

[Sniper]

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In reorganization matters, unsecured creditors often prefer to get SOME cash now, rather than wait.

I am NOT saying Neteller is not going to pay or is going to file for a formal reorganization. I am interestd however in how THIS market prices and allocates risk for US payments.

Wht is an appropriate discount for Neteller unsecured claims, 25 % ?

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Milton, the issue is not whether Neteller ultimately has the money... they do...

[cardcounter0]

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When you deposit your money in your checking or savings account, you expect that you will be able to withdraw it at any time...


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You might read the fine print on your Savings or Checking account. The Bank usually reserves the right to take 10 business days, if they choose, to give you your money.

[David Dodds]

I just got off the phone with Neteller and they were quoting the same 8 weeks. I think it's likely going to take longer than that though as they need to know they are not violating more US laws. And in 8 weeks, the word at US banks could be not to accept these checks. I think the prudent thing is to pay the 5% fee and transfer to someone outside of the US and they redeposit back through Pokerstars, etc. Really quite sad this whole mess.

[vts]

I am strongly considering that (transferring my neteller cash to an overseas friend and then having him transfer it to a poker account). Has anyone done this yet? So is neteller allowing non-US to deposit right now or has their cash issues stopped all transactions?

[Sniper]

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I am strongly considering that (transferring my neteller cash to an overseas friend and then having him transfer it to a poker account). Has anyone done this yet? So is neteller allowing non-US to deposit right now or has their cash issues stopped all transactions?

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Many people are doing this... you can find threads in the Zoo...

Non-US Neteller members (that don't have US Bank accounts) should not be affected.