Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[traz]

I honestly think if you didn't know Snape was good, you weren't reading the book right. The big mystery was how it all fit in, and even that turned out not to be a huge mystery

[Needle77]

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I honestly think if you didn't know Snape was good, you weren't reading the book right. The big mystery was how it all fit in, and even that turned out not to be a huge mystery

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Eh, I think what threw me was when JKR had wrote the, "Snape, please," where DD was pretty much begging Snape. It really didn't make much sense to me that DD could be pleading to Snape to kill him.

[traz]

Which is why that line was pure genius [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Needle77]

Exactly, between that and the lack of Snape ineraction in book 7 I don't see it being ridiculous for people to believe that Snape played DD so well.

I guess the silver doe would have been a cue, but I had 0 clue that his patronus could have been a Doe. I wouldn't have guessed Snape in 100 tries to have a doe as a patronus.

[traz]

Nah, of course it was a device used to get the public to be unsure of his allegiance. But if you read a little deeper, you could see it'd be a huge character flaw for Dumbledore to trust Snape so blindly and then be wrong.

JK emphasized it over and over, Dumbledore trusted Snape, and there was no way she would have made him be wrong. On the face of it, it looks like it could have gone either way, but like I said, if you're reading the book "right", there's just no way Snape could have been bad.

[CallMeIshmael]

quick q,


so, lilly/james have the doe/stag partroni (even though that isnt the correct pluralization, you're not going to stop be from using it)


IIRC, it is revealed in book 3 that james had the stag before he started dating lilly, like 5th year or something. (perhaps not necessarily stated, but implied)


Now, we know patroni can change due to significant events, so is there evidence for the chain of events that lead to the final patroni arrangement, or, if not, what are people's guesss?

Possible options:

1) James and Lilly and Snape were are born with freakishly coincidental patroni (obv unlikely) (or just Lilly/James were born as such, and Snape follows)

2) James and Snape both changed to match Lilly's... does that mean James' changed several years before they started dating?

3) Lilly changed to match James', and Snape's changed to match Lilly's later on




also,

traz, I agree 100%. I really thought it was clear that Snape was good, and that DD was asking for him to kill him.


(fwiw, one of the biggest clinchers to me, was that in OooP, Snape tips off the order that harry might be at ministry, when ignoring the cryptic one liner (which he could have done without arousing suspicion) would have handed harry to voldy)

[Dynasty]

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If you recall, when the intruders burst onto the tower roof, Dumbledore opts to petrify Harry instead of defending himself. Since it's basically impossible for DD to lose against a handful of Death Eaters at Hogwarts, the only real explanation is that he's throwing the fight and wants Harry safe.

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Only one person burst onto the tower room. That was Draco Malfoy and he was alone with Dumbldore for quite a while after Draco disarmed Dubmldore but before the other Death Eaters arrived.

Dumbldore wasn't throwing the fight. He had little reason to believe Snape was going to show up until after he saw Draco (and he had been disarmed by then). After that, he may have hoped Snape would arrive to protect Draco.

Dumbledore was already dying and weakened by the potion. He was simply beaten when fighting wasn't his #1 priority (Harry's safety was).

[Dynasty]

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IIRC, it is revealed in book 3 that james had the stag before he started dating lilly, like 5th year or something. (perhaps not necessarily stated, but implied)


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Actually, I don't think Jame's stag is ever explicitly stated ever. His animagus form was definitely a stag and that's why Harry's patronus was a stag.

[CallMeIshmael]

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IIRC, it is revealed in book 3 that james had the stag before he started dating lilly, like 5th year or something. (perhaps not necessarily stated, but implied)


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Actually, I don't think Jame's stag is ever explicitly stated ever. His animagus form was definitely a stag and that's why Harry's patronus was a stag.

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Yeah, perhaps. I flipped through PoA, but couldnt find any explicit mention of his patronus.


Even if we just know his animagus, it still leaves me scratching my head as to whether it was a big coincidence or james took the form of a stag because of Lilly. I want to assume it was the latter, but it just seems odd to do that at that stage in their "relationship"

[traz]

I think James would be the original stag, and Lily adopted the doe because of that. James -> Lily -> Snape is the most likely chain of events imo