|
|
#311
10-07-2007, 02:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
Adolf Hitler got a higher proportion of votes in 1932 than the Labour party in the UK did in 2005. Exactly how was this not democratic? [/ QUOTE ] I clearly stated Nazi Germany was not democratic, not the Weimar Republic. If you have any doubts to this statement, read a history book or something. Nazi Germany was started ca. 1933 after the Nazi party assumed complete control over the state after a series of anti-democratic and illegitmate means. There, can we _please_ move on now? 
|
|
#312
10-07-2007, 02:59 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Adolf Hitler got a higher proportion of votes in 1932 than the Labour party in the UK did in 2005. Exactly how was this not democratic? [/ QUOTE ] Some people just can't see the forrest for the trees. [/ QUOTE ] It's funny when flawed objections get echo-fans.
|
|
#313
10-07-2007, 03:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Adolf Hitler got a higher proportion of votes in 1932 than the Labour party in the UK did in 2005. Exactly how was this not democratic? [/ QUOTE ] Previous threads in this forum addressing this question have included such brilliant tactics as arguing that since it produced a "bad" result, it isn't democratic. [/ QUOTE ] And yet another one. Nazi Germany was not democratic, it was even based on an ideology that the tyranny was a better form of rule than democracy. The only 'democratic' election in 1932 was held in the Weimar Republic. Do anyone know history around here before they make statements?
|
|
#314
10-07-2007, 03:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm responding kinda late, but... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] The jews lived in a state where the majority stood behind Hitler and his ideas and thoguth that his ideals were good. It was the burden of hte jews to convince the Nazi's, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Was there a point here? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Might makes right? [/ QUOTE ] No.. I'm describing the reality of a specific situation. I'm baffled at the responses I got. Do you actually disagree with me? You act as if I was making some sort of esoteric argument, when I was making a simple statement of fact. [/ QUOTE ] 2+2=4 Gravity exists the earth revolves around the sun.... The only substance of your arugment was that the minority has to do the convincing. Don't you think ACist know this already? And the point of the jews thing is that condidtions can exist that are terrible, with which the majority agree (because they have been systematically propagandized to do so), and the minority suffer greatly. Also, many from that majority, who at one point defended the legitimacy of their views and actions with great fervor, lived to regret it and feel great shame. That is true of Nazi germany and that is (on a very small scale) true now in the USA and will increase in decades to come. The 'wrongs' may not compare in magnatude, but I ofen use extreme analogies to make a point. [/ QUOTE ] The majority of Germans didnt agree. They were coerced into cooperation.
|
|
#315
10-07-2007, 03:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm responding kinda late, but... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] The jews lived in a state where the majority stood behind Hitler and his ideas and thoguth that his ideals were good. It was the burden of hte jews to convince the Nazi's, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Was there a point here? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Might makes right? [/ QUOTE ] No.. I'm describing the reality of a specific situation. I'm baffled at the responses I got. Do you actually disagree with me? You act as if I was making some sort of esoteric argument, when I was making a simple statement of fact. [/ QUOTE ] 2+2=4 Gravity exists the earth revolves around the sun.... The only substance of your arugment was that the minority has to do the convincing. Don't you think ACist know this already? And the point of the jews thing is that condidtions can exist that are terrible, with which the majority agree (because they have been systematically propagandized to do so), and the minority suffer greatly. Also, many from that majority, who at one point defended the legitimacy of their views and actions with great fervor, lived to regret it and feel great shame. That is true of Nazi germany and that is (on a very small scale) true now in the USA and will increase in decades to come. The 'wrongs' may not compare in magnatude, but I ofen use extreme analogies to make a point. [/ QUOTE ] The majority of Germans didnt agree. They were coerced into cooperation. [/ QUOTE ] So there *was* a democracy, but it somehow *devolved* into a tyranny? Does that mean we can stop using the "AC could degenerate into a tyranny" objection now?
|
|
#316
10-07-2007, 03:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How the hell can you ask someone to "stick to it" if you don't even know what it is??? [/ QUOTE ] Because you've zigged and zagged so many times, it's hard keeping track of how many times it has changed....pick one already and let's stick to it... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] Pointing out that you're trying to wiggle out of answering the *intended* question on a technicality (what some people might call "semantical lawyering") is "flying off the handle." [/ QUOTE ] You asked "Might makes right?", and I replied "Practically." But if you want to call a direct, one word, simple response as "wiggling and semantical lawyering"....so much so...next time I'll make it even simpler, maybe post a picture or something. [/ QUOTE ] I don't have anything more to add here. I think the record speaks for itself. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] #2: Anytime someone disagrees with you, try to make them look like a crazy, emotional basket-case. [/ QUOTE ] Um, other than your semantical nits and rampant use of strawmen...what have we actually disagreed on of any actual substance? We actually share similar views on many things, but your too busy focusing on irrelevant semantics to notice. And I never said you were a crazy basket case, I said you were a huge douchebag..... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps you could actually explain why my analogies are bad, or what arguments I'm using that are strawmen. Or you could just continue with the ad hominem and the smug little smileys. [/ QUOTE ] pvn might be a man of few words, but he is certainly not stupid [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] intellectual dishonesty != stupidity, I agree. Hes still a waste of time because he can't defend his positions without resorting to nonsensical analogies and tremendous leaps in logic.
|
|
#317
10-07-2007, 03:29 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
So there *was* a democracy, but it somehow *devolved* into a tyranny? [/ QUOTE ] Does it somehow shock you that a democracy can fail, when the principles it is based on is broken? I stated that Nazi Germany was not a democracy, this is a true statement, and can not be debated. There is no debate to be had here, if an armed revolution seizes power over Canada tomorrow and dissolves the parliament, then it is not a democracy anymore. Get it?
|
|
#318
10-07-2007, 03:34 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 2+2=4 Gravity exists the earth revolves around the sun.... The only substance of your arugment was that the minority has to do the convincing. Don't you think ACist know this already? [/ QUOTE ] Someone was saying that the burden of proof is on statists to show why the state is good. I was just pointing out that practically speaking that is not the case. [ QUOTE ] And the point of the jews thing is that condidtions can exist that are terrible, with which the majority agree (because they have been systematically propagandized to do so), and the minority suffer greatly. Also, many from that majority, who at one point defended the legitimacy of their views and actions with great fervor, lived to regret it and feel great shame. That is true of Nazi germany and that is (on a very small scale) true now in the USA and will increase in decades to come. The 'wrongs' may not compare in magnatude, but I ofen use extreme analogies to make a point. [/ QUOTE ] What I said had nothing to do with whether states are 'right' or 'wrong'. I was just talking about the burden of proof. So yes, you are correct, but it's besides the point. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Might makes right? [/ QUOTE ]No.. I'm describing the reality of a specific situation. I'm baffled at the responses I got. Do you actually disagree with me? You act as if I was making some sort of esoteric argument, when I was making a simple statement of fact. [/ QUOTE ]It was a simple question. Yes, you described the status quo. I asked what you thought about it. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know where your question came from or how it's relevant, but no, "right" is subjective. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. I'm asking you for your personal subjective opinion.
|
|
#319
10-07-2007, 03:36 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So there *was* a democracy, but it somehow *devolved* into a tyranny? [/ QUOTE ] Does it somehow shock you that a democracy can fail, when the principles it is based on is broken? [/ QUOTE ] Nope. [ QUOTE ] I stated that Nazi Germany was not a democracy, this is a true statement, and can not be debated. There is no debate to be had here, if an armed revolution seizes power over Canada tomorrow and dissolves the parliament, then it is not a democracy anymore. Get it? [/ QUOTE ] Sure. Did you get the point I was making?
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
