Ram Vaswani speaks about that 'Golf Game'.

[kioshk]

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if ram does not pay this bet, what will be the reprucussions for him, and also in the gambling world period?

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He will henceforth be known as "Ewe". And his tee times will often be changed, seemingly without cause.

[Injection]

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I was told tonight that three arbiters were chosen with Ram and Goodwin giving their word to abide by their ruling. The same source said the arbiters ruled 3-0 in Ivey's favor. No word on whether they actually came through with the payment.

All three guys are still alive in the WPT Championship. Could be fun.

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I hope this is true, the freerolling bastards get what they deserve for trying to screw Ivey out of his legitimate winnings. Maybe they'll learn not to play in over their heads in the future, or at least quit before they fall further behind.

Any word on who the arbitrators were?

[wisehandpoker]

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I was told tonight that three arbiters were chosen with Ram and Goodwin giving their word to abide by their ruling. The same source said the arbiters ruled 3-0 in Ivey's favor. No word on whether they actually came through with the payment.

All three guys are still alive in the WPT Championship. Could be fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is true, the freerolling bastards get what they deserve for trying to screw Ivey out of his legitimate winnings. Maybe they'll learn not to play in over their heads in the future, or at least quit before they fall further behind.

Any word on who the arbitrators were?

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I'll see if I can find out more today. I may write something up on it.

[Peter McDermott]

I've just been looking at the discussion over on the Hendon Mob's forum. I have to say, that place is unbelievable. They totally and uncritically accept Ram's word on the matter, completely disregarding the possibility that a debt of $1.4 million might cause someone to be 'economical with the actualite', or at the very least, might skew one's perspective, inclining one towards favouring a particular spin on events, wherever any ambiguity can be found.

It's funny to watch them slagging off the Daniel Negreanu fanboys for uncritically swallowing Daniel's take on the matter, while they do exactly the same thing with regard to the Hendon Mob spin. Even when additional information is posted that casts doubt on Ram's account, for example, Barry Greenstein has posted there, and somebody else posted info on Martin deKniffe's role as arbitrator, but all that happens is that they then start inventing explanations that account for these additional facts.

I suppose that explains why Ram chose to post his rebuttal of DN's original post on the Hendon Mob website. Personally, had I been Ram, I would have wanted Daniel to provide me with equal space on his blog to respond, but there's nothing like ensuring that you've got a sympathetic audience when you're trying to spin an explanation for why you're a welcher.

My advice to Ram: start shipping all the railbirds $20 whenever you win a pot. You'll have them eating out of your hand in an instant.

[marcj85]

Ram pays Phil Ivey the money owed from the bet... then beats the living crap out of him for [censored] over a friend and takes his money back

atleast then he hasn't welched on his bet and Ivey got what he deserves for being a scumbag

[tiltseeker]

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I was told tonight that three arbiters were chosen with Ram and Goodwin giving their word to abide by their ruling. The same source said the arbiters ruled 3-0 in Ivey's favor. No word on whether they actually came through with the payment.

All three guys are still alive in the WPT Championship. Could be fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is true, the freerolling bastards get what they deserve for trying to screw Ivey out of his legitimate winnings. Maybe they'll learn not to play in over their heads in the future, or at least quit before they fall further behind.

Any word on who the arbitrators were?

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I'll see if I can find out more today. I may write something up on it.

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Wannabe.

[wisehandpoker]

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I was told tonight that three arbiters were chosen with Ram and Goodwin giving their word to abide by their ruling. The same source said the arbiters ruled 3-0 in Ivey's favor. No word on whether they actually came through with the payment.

All three guys are still alive in the WPT Championship. Could be fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is true, the freerolling bastards get what they deserve for trying to screw Ivey out of his legitimate winnings. Maybe they'll learn not to play in over their heads in the future, or at least quit before they fall further behind.

Any word on who the arbitrators were?

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I'll see if I can find out more today. I may write something up on it.

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Wannabe.

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Ya got me. nh.

[PairTheBoard]

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Ram pays Phil Ivey the money owed from the bet... then beats the living crap out of him for [censored] over a friend and takes his money back

atleast then he hasn't welched on his bet and Ivey got what he deserves for being a scumbag

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I don't see this "Ivey is a scumbag" perspective. You know, Golf is a funny game. It's very unpredictable. People who have played the game much can tell you how baffling it is. You even see it with the pros. A guy who wins a tournament can blow up into the 80's and miss the cut the next week. Gambling on golf is a little like gambling on women.

Sometimes when you take a break from the game like Ram did, you come back fresh, work your way into it after a few holes and shoot the round of your life. Other times you find your swing has abandoned you. The swing you once knew as well as your wife of 20 years has suddenly become a hooker you just met coming off her strip joint pole. You can't tell the difference between a 70 yard pitch and a full Nine Iron. The pitching wedge you once figured to get close to the hole with is now taking you 10 yards over the green. And that's if you don't Shank It. 3 Putts start popping up like Freddy Krueger in sequel after sequel of Nightmare on Elm Street Greens. Getting down in 2 from the fringe is like threading a needle with a rope. Your focus on 4 foot putts is like a myopic sleepwalker on an Ambien quest for peanut butter.

I think this is what happened to Ram. He underestimated the effects of his 4 months layoff. He asked for an adjustment to their standard spot but was easily talked out of it. He thought he would work his way back to his old form after a few holes. That's why he kept playing. He couldn't believe what had happened to his game and he thought he would get it together in the next hole. I've seen the same kind of thing with guys who gamble at pool. They go back to their girlfriend over and over again for another $20 saying, "I'm just getting warmed up. I'm ready to get hot".

This is why it's called gambling. You just never know. There's no way you can make the perfect spot to insure the game will be close because the game of Golf befuddles any such predictions.

Meanwhile, Ivey was at the other end of that spectrum. He had been struggling with his game for the past year as a beginning golfer. Sometimes such players reach a breakout point in their game. Everything comes together and they shoot hot rounds much better than they've been consistently shooting. The thing is, There's no way to predict when that breakout is going to happen. Sometimes it NEVER HAPPENS! Just look at Daniel N. For all his practice and coaching he's received, he still sucks. You can't blame Ivey for believing in himself, putting money on the line, and then having the talent to put it all together under the pressure and make some great putts. You can also understand Ram thinking that Ivey was bound to revert to his old form and start having some blow ups. Ivey just didn't accomodate him. Not because the spot was so wrong - they did adjust it after 18 holes. But because Ivey's talent finally showed through For The Win. Like Barry G. observed. It was a Perfect Storm.

You also can't blame Ram too much for his hesitancy in paying off. Before releasing that kind of money you certainly want to make sure you haven't been the victim of some kind of Con. But he has evidently agreed to abide by the results of this latest binding arbitration. So that should be the end of it.

Actually, Ram did get conned. But not by Phil Ivey. Ram made the mistake of getting into bed at the same time with two of the most baffling Forces of Nature known to man. Lady Luck and the Game of Golf.

PairTheBoard

[realjaydub]

As much as I find it retarded that two Poker Pros are diddling on a golf course wagering for money most people won't see in a lifetime, I find it more retarded that so many people have so much to say about a bet between two guys.

[Peter McDermott]

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As much as I find it retarded that two Poker Pros are diddling on a golf course wagering for money most people won't see in a lifetime, I find it more retarded that so many people have so much to say about a bet between two guys.

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Nobody besides the fan boys gives a [censored] about the bet or the individuals concerned. People are talking about the ethical dilemmas involved. Given that ethical dilemmas is a subject that has fascinated philosophers since the days of Plato and before, it's hardly surprising that they continue to challenge us.

And BTW, do we *really* think Ram could take Ivey in a fight? Personally, I'd be backing Ivey to deliver the decisive ass-kicking myself. Ram looks a bit old and slow, whereas Ivey looks young and hungry. As BG said, even when he's the underdog, he prides himself on being tougher under pressure.