"Jesus" advises Yang to stiff dealers?

[rafiki]

I can't believe that 12 pages later we're still talking about tipping on top of tipping. but mostly the part that cracks me up is that someone thought the net result of this would encourage people to tip MORE. If nothing else it really makes you think about how brutal some aspects of this industry are.

I gotta hand it to the drink girls at the casinos. They have it down.

1) get fake boobs: 5-13k
2) work your butt off on your feet doing a pretty stressful job
3) PROFIT

[Zetack]

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p,

"Next, we do not get paid by the hour this year, we get paid by downs (each table we deal), we do get an hourly $6.41 from harrahs."

"means that we should only recieve $214 for 11 days of work? Hmmm that doesnt sound to good to me."

"Now We started the main this year with over 700 dealers"

OK, so let's work out the math here.

There were 700 dealers involved in dealing during the 11 days of the ME.

These dealers split the following:

Hourly rate of $6.41
$60,000,000 * 1.8% * 65% = $702,000
Tips when dealing cash games
Additional tip pool from other tourneys during this time

So, a dealer who dealt 8 hours a day over these 11 days would make about $1565 [$564 ($6.41 * 8 * 11) + $1,000 (700k/700)] PLUS tips they received while dealing at cash games.

Is that correct, p? Please correct the assumptions regarding how many downs the average dealer dealt in tournament and cash games.

The way many reasonable posters on this forum approach this issue is to think about whether or not the dealers are getting paid a fair wage when all things are taken into account.

The numbers make it look like dealers are getting paid far more than the $214 you thought you would get paid, more like in the $1500-2000 range.

Do you feel like the actual numbers are fair compensation for this period? If not, what would you consider reasonable compensation to expect for dealing the WSOP?

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But is this the proper way to think about how much we should tip? On occaision my wife and I go out to a very nice dinner. We drop about $150 on the meal. Takes us about an hour and a half. A twenty percent tip would be $30 dollars.

Do we then go, wait a second, suppose the waiter covers five tables at a time. $150 per table probably would be low as an average, since many tables have more than two people dining. Figure over the course of six hours or so the waiter covers 20 tables. Why the waiter is getting $600 dollars for a six hour shift or $100 dollars an hour. Even assuming some of that is shared with the hostess and busboys that's an outrageous amount! Why, I'll just leave an eight dollar tip, the same as I do for the waitress at Outback - that's a much more reasonable earn for the waiter.

I don't do that - Instead I pony up my thirty dollar tip and take my wife home for the good 'ole sack time.

I think the question of whether to tip an additional amount when there is already tip taken out is a valid one. I'm not sure that basing it on what we perceive the dealers to make is consistent with how we tip any other endeavor.

--Zetack

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This analogy should be taken out and shot.

Start over, only this time the restaurant adds 18% of every check as an automatic gratuity. Now how much do you leave?

The whiny dealers and people who don't think this is the "proper way to think about how much we tip" should take it up with Harrah's, NOT Yang and/or Ferguson.

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I think the analogy is fine. In your revised analogy, I probably would not leave more tip, because 18% is in the general ball park of a reasonable and customary tip. However, nowhere in that decision making process would I try to figure out what the waiter is making per hour/day/year and what is a reasonable amount for the waiter to earn, and what would be a reasonable amount to keep competent waiters coming back.

So, vis-a-vis the WSOP I do think its perfectly reasonable to ask, is 1.8% of the prizepool a reasonable and customary tip, and then, whether it is or is not, do you, as a large winner, wish to tip additionally. Plugging into that caculation some thought about what you think is reasonable for a dealer to earn, however, is simply not consistent with how we tip any other endeavor.

--Zetack

[Clarkmeister]

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Yet again we are not recieving 1.8%, over 700 dealers are sharing 65% of that 1.8%(I have been told now that the chip runners are getting 5% of our share) And atleast i can admit im no good with numbers :O)

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Chip runners for the main event? That's hard to believe.

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I find it even harder to believe how dealers think that they are the only ones entitled to tips. The bitterness that floorpeople and chip runners get tips too is simply astounding to me.

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Where this bitterness comes from (historically, maybe it has been addressed) is that after a big win the winners will often tips members of the floor staff. The they get to keep 100% of this plus 35% (I think the number has switched to 30% in recent years) of the money for the dealers.

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Even with this explanation, why do the dealers care? It's a tip, at the discretion of the players. If the players feel they want to tip the floorpeople more, then that's their perrogative. There's certainly no "right" way to tip, and the dealers certainly aren't entitled to some arbitrary cut of every tip dollar.

[Clarkmeister]

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Yet again we are not recieving 1.8%, over 700 dealers are sharing 65% of that 1.8%(I have been told now that the chip runners are getting 5% of our share) And atleast i can admit im no good with numbers :O)

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Chip runners for the main event? That's hard to believe.

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I find it even harder to believe how dealers think that they are the only ones entitled to tips. The bitterness that floorpeople and chip runners get tips too is simply astounding to me.

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<font color="red"> what bitterness is that exactly? i am extreemly interested in how you get bitterness from that post </font>

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It goes all the way back to your initial post, and the concept that Photoc later echoed. Namely that "no no no no, he would maybe have tipped *more* if he had known that the dealers *only* got 65% of the tip pool". Like the dealers really deserved more of the pool than that (and the others didn't), or that he would feel obligated to the dealers *in particular* (since obviously in your opinion the floor and chip runners ARE adequately tipped as opposed to the poor undertipped dealers.

That bitterness, as well as the whole boo-hoo I have to pay income tax thing, comes through in most posts that touch on those subjects.

[RR]

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Yet again we are not recieving 1.8%, over 700 dealers are sharing 65% of that 1.8%(I have been told now that the chip runners are getting 5% of our share) And atleast i can admit im no good with numbers :O)

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Chip runners for the main event? That's hard to believe.

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I find it even harder to believe how dealers think that they are the only ones entitled to tips. The bitterness that floorpeople and chip runners get tips too is simply astounding to me.

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Where this bitterness comes from (historically, maybe it has been addressed) is that after a big win the winners will often tips members of the floor staff. The they get to keep 100% of this plus 35% (I think the number has switched to 30% in recent years) of the money for the dealers.

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Even with this explanation, why do the dealers care? It's a tip, at the discretion of the players. If the players feel they want to tip the floorpeople more, then that's their perrogative. There's certainly no "right" way to tip, and the dealers certainly aren't entitled to some arbitrary cut of every tip dollar.

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It isn't a big deal these days. In the old days there was no portion of the prize pool withheld, just two palces to put money. The one that was "for the dealers" the floor staff got 35% and the one that was "for the floor" the floor kept. I don't think any experienced dealers begrudge the floorstaff some tips, but I do see a problem when a player leaves some for the dealers and then takes care of th e floor not knowing they get a portion of the dealer pool, (note to anyone reading that isn't Clark this is strictly tournaments we are talking about, some places the dealers will tip out the floor, but it isn't anywhere near the 30-35 % we are talking about).

[pkrporcupine]

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Alot of you out there calling me greedy need to understand that because i choose to work the circuit for harrahs and travel with them, I have to pay all my own expenses, my own health care and we only work about 2 weeks every month. We depend on the WSOP to make up for the rest of the year to keep us all fed till January. This 45 days of hard work is atleast 2/3 of most of our incomes.

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Hmmmmm.....
With all those expenses, I hope you make at least $67.5K a year.
So 2/3 of that would be $45K from the WSOP.
For 45 days of hard work.
$1000 a day.

But if you are making $33.7K a year, before expenses, that makes it $500 a day.

Or am I using "misleading" numbers?

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<font color="blue"> Alot of you out there calling me greedy need to understand that because i choose to work the circuit for harrahs and travel with them, I have to pay all my own expenses, my own health care and we only work about 2 weeks every month. We depend on the WSOP to make up for the rest of the year to keep us all fed till January. This 45 days of hard work is atleast 2/3 of most of our incomes. Now I believe that harrahs with the huge vig every event should be the ones responsible for giving us a bigger chunk and I think that tipping is a very personal thing that should be left to every individual to decide on and not bitter players who wish to bash us “greedy sons of…”. I for one dont expect anything that i have not earned but I always appreciate a thank you for a job well done and that doesnt have to be in the form of cash and last night it was in the form of a huge hug. I love my job even with the ups and downs and honestly, This years WSOP was a great time for me. So hopefully this rambling clears up a few things and starts alot more discussions on how things can be done even better next year for all involved.
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if you put the whole quote in your post, no

[pig4bill]

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having been hired as Jerry's agent for the WSOP Main Event on Monday afternoon... Oliver Tse

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If he thought he needed God's help before....

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He brought in Chris Ferguson to give advice, saving the guy thousands of dollars. Sounds like he's done a good job so far.

[pkrporcupine]

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I can't believe that 12 pages later we're still talking about tipping on top of tipping. but mostly the part that cracks me up is that someone thought the net result of this would encourage people to tip MORE. If nothing else it really makes you think about how brutal some aspects of this industry are.
<font color="blue">I dare you to find anywhere in this thread that my intention in my OP was to lure players into tipping more? I dont want to hear your insane assumptons this time, i want proof, ACTUAL post/posts that i stated that </font>

I gotta hand it to the drink girls at the casinos. They have it down.

1) get fake boobs: 5-13k
2) work your butt off on your feet doing a pretty stressful job
3) PROFIT

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[pig4bill]

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Yet again we are not recieving 1.8%, over 700 dealers are sharing 65% of that 1.8%(I have been told now that the chip runners are getting 5% of our share) And atleast i can admit im no good with numbers :O)

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Chip runners for the main event? That's hard to believe.

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I find it even harder to believe how dealers think that they are the only ones entitled to tips. The bitterness that floorpeople and chip runners get tips too is simply astounding to me.

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Well, except that chip runners don't do anything in tournaments. Why not give the bell boys a piece too?

[pkrporcupine]

It goes all the way back to your initial post, and the concept that Photoc later echoed. Namely that "no no no no, he would maybe have tipped *more* if he had known that the dealers *only* got 65% of the tip pool". Like the dealers really deserved more of the pool than that (and the others didn't), or that he would feel obligated to the dealers *in particular* (since obviously in your opinion the floor and chip runners ARE adequately tipped as opposed to the poor undertipped dealers.

<font color="red"> Show me please where I posted this statement that I feel that the chip runners and floor staff are well tipped. and please give me a page number for the rest of this statement i supposedly posted stateing my intent and opinion.....word for word"" It goes all the way back to your initial post, and the concept that Photoc later echoed. Namely that "no no no no, he would maybe have tipped *more* if he had known that the dealers *only* got 65% of the tip pool". Like the dealers really deserved more of the pool than that (and the others didn't), or that he would feel obligated to the dealers *in particular* (since obviously in your opinion the floor and chip runners ARE adequately tipped as opposed to the poor undertipped dealers.""
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