#301
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
Schneids, see my other posts after my initial one. (You were probably responding as I made them.)
After thinking about it, I decided that the additional compensation shouldn't be based upon losses -- it should be based upon total hands played against the cheaters, along with the limit you played against them. Basically the site will be compensating you for both time wasted and the implied value that the cheaters had of never getting caught and making off with the money. |
#302
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
Or to further expand how problems could arise:
STAGE #746344245: HOLDEM NORMAL $200/$400 - 2007-08-27 21:32:09 (ET) Table: LOC NESS AVE (Real Money) Seat #1 is the dealer Seat 1 - SCHDNFRD ($24712.50 in chips) Seat 2 - PUNKIN_U ($12376.32 in chips) Seat 3 - LEAVINGEGYPT ($9190 in chips) Seat 4 - GRAYCAT ($18517 in chips) Seat 5 - BERGENISGAY ($18882 in chips) Seat 6 - TRUTHY ($10845 in chips) Seat 7 - EZ2PLY ($6445 in chips) Seat 8 - GEMMER ($7058 in chips) Seat 9 - MAVERI9 ($7362.50 in chips) PUNKIN_U - Posts small blind $100 LEAVINGEGYPT - Posts big blind $200 *** POCKET CARDS *** Dealt to PUNKIN_U [Kd 9d] GRAYCAT - Raises $400 to $400 BERGENISGAY - Folds TRUTHY - Folds EZ2PLY - Raises $600 to $600 GEMMER - Folds MAVERI9 - Folds SCHDNFRD - Folds PUNKIN_U - Calls $500 LEAVINGEGYPT - Folds GRAYCAT - Calls $200 *** FLOP *** [2d 8s Qc] PUNKIN_U - Checks GRAYCAT - Bets $200 EZ2PLY - Calls $200 PUNKIN_U - Calls $200 *** TURN *** [2d 8s Qc] [2c] PUNKIN_U - Checks GRAYCAT - Bets $400 EZ2PLY - Raises $800 to $800 PUNKIN_U - Folds GRAYCAT - Raises $800 to $1200 EZ2PLY - Calls $400 *** RIVER *** [2d 8s Qc 2c] [Ks] GRAYCAT - Bets $400 EZ2PLY - Calls $400 *** SHOW DOWN *** GRAYCAT - Shows [5s 4d] (One pair, twos) EZ2PLY - Shows [As 5d] (One pair, twos) EZ2PLY Collects $5795 from main pot *** SUMMARY *** Total Pot($5800) | Rake ($5) Board [2d 8s Qc 2c Ks] Seat 1: SCHDNFRD (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS Seat 2: PUNKIN_U (small blind) Folded on the TURN Seat 3: LEAVINGEGYPT (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS Seat 4: GRAYCAT HI:lost with One pair, twos [5s 4d - B:2d,B:2c,B:Ks,B:Qc,B:8s] Seat 5: BERGENISGAY Folded on the POCKET CARDS Seat 6: TRUTHY Folded on the POCKET CARDS Seat 7: EZ2PLY won Total ($5795) HI$5795) with One pair, twos(ace kicker) [As 5d - B:2d,B:2c,P:As,B:Ks,B:Qc] Seat 8: GEMMER Folded on the POCKET CARDS Seat 9: MAVERI9 Folded on the POCKET CARDS In this hand, had it been a *NORMAL* player playing, they would've probably folded the 54o UTG, which also likely results in baronzeus folding his A5o... And who knows how the rest of the hand would've played out, but with those two factors addressed, I definitely do not put in $600 preflop and another $200 postflop. Or lets say Baronzeus DID open raise, I fold to his open raise, however, because of Graycat playing the hand, and me being aware of BZ 3-betting him ultralight (because of graycat playing every hand), this hand cost me $800. PT shows me losing $800 to BZ from this pot, even though it's effectively Graycat who cost me the $800. Do I get some form of reimbursement? |
#303
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
[ QUOTE ]
Schneids, see my other posts after my initial one. (You were probably responding as I made them.) After thinking about it, I decided that the additional compensation shouldn't be based upon losses -- it should be based upon total hands played against the cheaters, along with the limit you played against them. Basically the site will be compensating you for both time wasted and the implied value that the cheaters had of never getting caught and making off with the money. [/ QUOTE ] You are correct, it took some time for me to type up my responses and I didn't see your extensions on the first (also the case in my second post right below last one I quoted of yours). In any case I agree with everything you say, and AP *should* in some way factor in some additional bonuses for those who us who were cheated. |
#304
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
Associated names:
HILT, TATUM OSCAR, TATUM TATUM, HILT TATUM, HILT TATUM, OSCAR H TATUM, OSCAR H TATUM, OSCAR H TATUM, OSCAR H DMD TATUM, OHILT HILT Possible Employment / Business Associations: NCNB BLDG Legislative Bodies NCNB BLDG Legislative Bodies TATUM HOLDINGS, LLC Available(9) Available ST PETERSBURG, FL SAFETY HARBOR, FL CLEARWATER, FL TIERRA VERDE, FL SAINT PETERSBURG, FL SARASOTA, FL WESLEY CHAPEL, FL ZEPHYRHILLS, FL GAINESVILLE, FL Possible Relatives: TATUM, O HILTJRDDS (Age 73) TATUM, CAROLYN C (Age 74) TATUM, HIH TATUM, CAROLYN HILT, OSCARI TATUM TATUM, TATUM TATUMO, HILT D (Age 49) TATUM, O HILT TATUM, SCARLETT S Possible Roommates / Associates: STUTTS, STEVEN CARROLL (Age 43) LIGHT, JAMES MMDPAFAXLIN (Age 66) EZULIKE, JOHN CHUKWUEMEK (Age 56) PHARES, RICHARD EUGENE (Age 71) EZULIKE, LOLA B (Age 56) CRAWFORDTHO, TRACY A (Age 46) BORGNER, RICHARD ADDS (Age 107) EZULKIE, JOHN C (Age 56) ROBERTS, BRENDA JORDAN (Age 56) PALLY, MADHAVA T (Age 58) MATZKIN, STEVEN RDDS (Age 107) VERNETTI, MICHELLE T (Age 33) VERNETTI, ELAINE T (Age 82) BERGERON, SUKI O (Age 53) |
#305
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
Associated names:
TATUM, HILT TATUM, O H TATUM, O HILT TATUM JR, O Possible Employment / Business Associations: UNIQUE PROFESSIONAL PRODUCTS CO, INC Available(6) Available SAINT PETERSBURG, FL CLEARWATER, FL ST PETERSBURG, FL Possible Relatives: TATUM, CAROLYN TATUM, HILT O (Age 73) TATUM, SCARLETT S TATUM, OSCAR HILTIIIDDS (Age 73) TATUM, SCARLETT STUTTS (Age 50) TATUM, III OSCARH OSCAR, HILT TATUM OSCAR, HILT TATUM TATUM, JR OH Possible Roommates / Associates: STUTTS, STEVEN CARROLL (Age 43) WOODS, NORMA J (Age 67) BORGNER, RICHARD ADDS (Age 107) View Details 2. TATUM, OSCAR HILT III DDS (Age 73) Associated names: HILT, TATUM OSCAR, TATUM TATUM, HILT TATUM, HILT TATUM, OSCAR H TATUM, OSCAR H TATUM, OSCAR H TATUM, OSCAR H DMD TATUM, OHILT HILT Possible Employment / Business Associations: NCNB BLDG Legislative Bodies NCNB BLDG Legislative Bodies TATUM HOLDINGS, LLC Available(9) Available ST PETERSBURG, FL SAFETY HARBOR, FL CLEARWATER, FL TIERRA VERDE, FL SAINT PETERSBURG, FL SARASOTA, FL WESLEY CHAPEL, FL ZEPHYRHILLS, FL GAINESVILLE, FL Possible Relatives: TATUM, O HILTJRDDS (Age 73) TATUM, CAROLYN C (Age 74) TATUM, HIH TATUM, CAROLYN HILT, OSCARI TATUM TATUM, TATUM TATUMO, HILT D (Age 49) TATUM, O HILT TATUM, SCARLETT S Possible Roommates / Associates: STUTTS, STEVEN CARROLL (Age 43) LIGHT, JAMES MMDPAFAXLIN (Age 66) EZULIKE, JOHN CHUKWUEMEK (Age 56) PHARES, RICHARD EUGENE (Age 71) EZULIKE, LOLA B (Age 56) CRAWFORDTHO, TRACY A (Age 46) BORGNER, RICHARD ADDS (Age 107) EZULKIE, JOHN C (Age 56) ROBERTS, BRENDA JORDAN (Age 56) PALLY, MADHAVA T (Age 58) MATZKIN, STEVEN RDDS (Age 107) VERNETTI, MICHELLE T (Age 33) VERNETTI, ELAINE T (Age 82) BERGERON, SUKI O (Age 53) View Details 3. TATUM, HILT III Available(1) Available TAMPA, FL View Details 4. TATUM, HILT Available(1) Available ST PETE BEACH, FL Possible Relatives: TATUM, SCARLETT View Details 5. TATUM, HILT O (Age 73) Associated names: TATUM, O. H Possible Employment / Business Associations: WORLD MEDICAL, INC Available SAINT PETERSBURG, FL Possible Relatives: TATUM, O HILTJRDDS (Age 73) View Details |
#306
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
BTW, I don't want people taking this as a demand of compensation for "mental anguish" or any BS like that.
The main reason for additional compensation, as I already stated, is the fact that the cheaters should not have been allowed to freeroll us in their attempt to steal our money. For example, let's say I offered you a game (poker or otherwise) where I may or may not be cheating. The deal I offer you is that if you can conclusively prove I was cheating (and how I did it), I will refund any losses you have. Otherwise, I will keep anything I win. Would you take this deal? Obviously not. Therefore, there must be some sort of premium charged for CHEATING AND GETTING CAUGHT, otherwise the cheaters have nothing to lose by playing dishonestly. |
#307
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
Every Scott Tom in America below
wow 173 of them |
#308
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
Also when is Mark Seif going to post a public apology to me for publicly accusing me of being an "out and out liar" and a "known exaggerator" in order to protect his clearly guilty site?
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#309
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
somebody please ban hackers again
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#310
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Re: AP thread 87.1 - AP and UB ownership puzzle
somebody ban this moron immediately.
Druff - I agree the cost of cheating and getting caught must greatly exceed the benefit of cheating and getting away with it. Realize though, that the cheaters will be penalized (at least should be) far beyond simply paying back money. They sould lose their jobs, face charges, and AP will lose far more in lost customers and business. I still think an extra premium should be paid though: damages, lost wages, and suffering. I think all losses, plus a perhand*stake fee would be appropriate and simple to calculate. |
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