Ron Paul's racist comments

[RedBean]

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let me propose the following scenario to you:

Your best friend who you've known well for 20+ years says something very publicly that sounds extremely racist to everyone who hears it, including yourself. Later, you talk to him about it and he's like "wow, I totally didn't mean it that way." He then proceeds to provide you with an explanation for what he meant that seems very shaky to you, but because he's your best friend of 20+ years, you believe him. You do know, however, that the other people, none of whom were good friends to either of you, are unlikely to buy it and are probably going to consider him a racist scumbag. The next time you talk to them do you:

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Is this what you're saying happened with Paul?

If the comments were a "mistake" or "ignorance", then why would they still need to be defended....unless the person who wrote them still thought they were correct?

He could have denounced the commments and admitted his deception of using a ghostwriter without "turning on his friend".

It's amazing how RonPaulNation places blame entirely on some "anonymous" person, and then has the gall to attribute the situation to Paul's seemingly heroic defense of this poor soul rather than "turning n him".

The rationalization is amazing. It's simply amazing.

For what it's worth, though, if I were in the situation, I would immediately denounce the comments as vile and racist, apologize profusely for the mistake, clarify in no uncertain terms that I did not author them and had made a tremendous mistake in lending my name to them and misleading paying subscribers. I would not let there be any doubt whatsoever that I was not the author, and make it crystal clear at the first opportunity that it was 100% my fault. It would have definately been in the very next version of the newsletter in order to serve as a permanent correction record for reference in the future.

I most definately wouldn't wait 9 years to "clear it up", and I certainly wouldn't continue to defend the racist view for 10+ years out of some misaligned sense of loyalty to a racist "friend".

I would, however, pull his ass in a room in private and konk him on the head, tell him he screwed up, and that while I wouldn't pass the buck on him and name him, I sure as hell wouldn't defend his stupid article because it doesn't deserve a defense. If he continued to stand by his views, then I'd tell him he can go find another friend, because I couldn't imagine associating with some like that, and I certainly couldn't live with myself knowing I was defending comments to millions in the public that were against my true character.

That didn't happen with Paul, of course, because at best, he lacks judgement necessary in a leader and true conviction to his proclaimed character, and at worst, he shares the racist views expressed in his newsletter, and quite possibly authored them. Either way, such a man doesn't deserve my vote, nor should he deserve anyone else's.

EDIT: Unless of course, they share the views expressed in the newsletter and consider them worthy of defense. In that case, I would say Paul probably deserves your vote.

[AlexM]

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let me propose the following scenario to you:

Your best friend who you've known well for 20+ years says something very publicly that sounds extremely racist to everyone who hears it, including yourself. Later, you talk to him about it and he's like "wow, I totally didn't mean it that way." He then proceeds to provide you with an explanation for what he meant that seems very shaky to you, but because he's your best friend of 20+ years, you believe him. You do know, however, that the other people, none of whom were good friends to either of you, are unlikely to buy it and are probably going to consider him a racist scumbag. The next time you talk to them do you:

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this what you're saying happened with Paul?

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Not exactly, but something similar seems the most likely explanation for events.

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If the comments were a "mistake" or "ignorance", then why would they still need to be defended....unless the person who wrote them still thought they were correct?

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Did you even read the analogy? Are you going to defend your friend or not?

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He could have denounced the commments and admitted his deception of using a ghostwriter without "turning on his friend".

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If you believe that your friend wasn't intending them that way, denouncing them in that way would be dishonest, a betrayal of your friend and above all a very "politiciany" thing to do.

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It's amazing how RonPaulNation places blame entirely on some "anonymous" person, and then has the gall to attribute the situation to Paul's seemingly heroic defense of this poor soul rather than "turning on him".

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And here you choose to end the feeble start of a conversation we were having and go back to trolling. You realize this is pure trolling, right? What purpose does any of this paragraph serve except as a blatant (and failed) attempt to piss me off?

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For what it's worth, though, if I were in the situation, I would immediately denounce the comments as vile and racist, apologize profusely for the mistake, clarify in no uncertain terms that I did not author them and had made a tremendous mistake in lending my name to them and misleading paying subscribers. I would not let there be any doubt whatsoever that I was not the author, and make it crystal clear at the first opportunity that it was 100% my fault. It would have definately been in the very next version of the newsletter in order to serve as a permanent correction record for reference in the future.

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And I agree that would be the right thing to do. I assume that you're completely infallible and have never made a mistake in your life?

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I most definately wouldn't wait 9 years to "clear it up",

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The only reason it took that long was because no one asked about it or cared, so this is pure red herring.

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and I certainly wouldn't continue to defend the racist view for 10+ years out of some misaligned sense of loyalty to a racist "friend".

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You obviously didn't read my post. The friend in question convinced you that he meant the comments innocently. Either you fail at reading comprehension or you're intentionally twisting my words and further trolling.

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If he continued to stand by his views, then I'd tell him he can go find another friend, because I couldn't imagine associating with some like that,

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You can't imagine yourself associating with someone you know isn't racist and made a dumb mistake? Fascinating.

The rest of your post...

Well, I tried very hard to engage you in a serious discussion about this and all you're interested in doing is twisting my words and trolling. Guess my ignore list is getting a little bigger. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[SNOWBALL]

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Who was harmed by the newsletter error? What damages were incurred?

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Error, but not in context, according to R Paul!!! LOL

But, I must say, you take the cake! LOL Don't you think that a whole group of people, regardless of their lack of guilt or lack of involvement, namely a great proportion of US citizens, was vilified by the statements.

Your lack of sensitivity does smack of Hickville! Of course, it is harder to phrenologically identify citizens of Hicksville, but you can sure identify them by the beliefs, attitudes and/or actions! LOL

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Ahhh.. the last group in America it is still okay to hate, southern white people. Want to make fun of the way they talk? Why not. They sure sound funny. Anybody who talks like that is obviously an ignorant redneck.

You sir, might be a racist.

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I don't see how it's racist for one group of white people to disapprove of the culture of another group of white people. Nice try though.

[RedBean]

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Well, I tried very hard to engage you in a serious discussion about this ...

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Yeah, by chopping up my reply and replying to one coherent point completely out of context. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

For example, I said if my friend continued to hold these racist views, he wouldn't be my friend, and if he convinced me it was a mistake or not meant that way, there wouldn't be a need to defend it.

Of course, you chopped out the part you wanted to reply to, related to "if he still had the racist views" and then admonished me for "lack of reading comprehension".

As for Paul not clearing it up for 9 years "because no one asked him", then add that as another reason not to vote for this man. If he can only be honest and open when explicitly and directly asked a question, without bothering to offer up on his own when it is being discussed prior to that, yet not directly asked....then that tells me even more about his "character" and dishonesty.

Also, that you feel denouncing the comments, even if the friend didn't intend them that way, as being "dishonest", then that tells me a lot about you and your character as well.

Considering you find it "honorable" for Paul to be deceptive about the authorship and staunch in continuing to defend racist comments out of loyalty to a friend.........yet you would consider it "dishonest" to denounce blatantly racist comments under the hypothetical situation that a friend made them, and he "didn't mean it that way."

I'm telling you, man, the rationalization based on the blind faith of the man you think of as your prophet is amazing.

Simply amazing.

[blufish]

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Who was harmed by the newsletter error? What damages were incurred?

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Error, but not in context, according to R Paul!!! LOL

But, I must say, you take the cake! LOL Don't you think that a whole group of people, regardless of their lack of guilt or lack of involvement, namely a great proportion of US citizens, was vilified by the statements.

Your lack of sensitivity does smack of Hickville! Of course, it is harder to phrenologically identify citizens of Hicksville, but you can sure identify them by the beliefs, attitudes and/or actions! LOL

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Ahhh.. the last group in America it is still okay to hate, southern white people. Want to make fun of the way they talk? Why not. They sure sound funny. Anybody who talks like that is obviously an ignorant redneck.

You sir, might be a racist.

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I don't see how it's racist for one group of white people to disapprove of the culture of another group of white people. Nice try though.

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probably so. how about elitist and ignorant, tho??

[Taso]

Hickville can really be just about anywhere really. We have hicks in upstate NY for christ's sake.

[AlexM]

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Who was harmed by the newsletter error? What damages were incurred?

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Error, but not in context, according to R Paul!!! LOL

But, I must say, you take the cake! LOL Don't you think that a whole group of people, regardless of their lack of guilt or lack of involvement, namely a great proportion of US citizens, was vilified by the statements.

Your lack of sensitivity does smack of Hickville! Of course, it is harder to phrenologically identify citizens of Hicksville, but you can sure identify them by the beliefs, attitudes and/or actions! LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh.. the last group in America it is still okay to hate, southern white people. Want to make fun of the way they talk? Why not. They sure sound funny. Anybody who talks like that is obviously an ignorant redneck.

You sir, might be a racist.

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I don't see how it's racist for one group of white people to disapprove of the culture of another group of white people. Nice try though.

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Racist? No, but it's the same type of bigotry. Just because the bigotry doesn't happen to be based on race isn't terribly relevant.

[manbearpig]

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Well, I tried very hard to engage you in a serious discussion about this ...

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Yeah, by chopping up my reply and replying to one coherent point completely out of context. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

For example, I said if my friend continued to hold these racist views, he wouldn't be my friend, and if he convinced me it was a mistake or not meant that way, there wouldn't be a need to defend it.



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The point is what if he knew it was a mistake, and you knew it was a mistake, but the public didn't know it was a mistake and were hammering him on it?

Would you defend it then?

[ojc02]

My big concern is that if Ron ever starts polling above ~10% some hack will dig this up and do exactly what RedBean is doing - hammer him on it continuously.

The media would have a field day and it would be brought up every time anybody talked about him or to him.

There are always going to be people like RedBean with the political long-knives ready to destroy him with allegations and innuendo while ignoring the many *huge* issues with their own selected candidate.

Sigh.

[SNOWBALL]

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So did he write these comments or not?

Every candidate has some weird remarks attributed to them.

No one denies that Hillary made the Ghandi joke (Ghandi joke on Youtube)

But we just move on, and get back to the real issues of the campaign.

If Paul did not write the remarks himself, we have less reason to dwell on them than we do on the Hillary remarks.

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I hate Hillary, but I didn't think that remark was inflammatory. It's not like she said that indians are a bunch of terrorists destroying all major american cities.