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#21
04-21-2006, 08:54 PM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
Unless I was 4-tabling live, no. PT helps those of us who 4-table and want an "insta-read" of a player. Live players can examine each individual more because there are fewer hands/hour. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. The few times i play live, it's usually a full table instead of 4x6max online.Usually, the table stays pretty much the same. So, i can remember all the players at my live table. I cannot do it 4tabling online, when players come and go. 
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#22
04-21-2006, 08:57 PM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
I cannot do it 4tabling online, when players come and go. [/ QUOTE ] Gaining an advantage that not all players have by using a program. Ethical?
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#23
04-21-2006, 09:01 PM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Unless I was 4-tabling live, no. PT helps those of us who 4-table and want an "insta-read" of a player. Live players can examine each individual more because there are fewer hands/hour. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. The few times i play live, it's usually a full table instead of 4x6max online.Usually, the table stays pretty much the same. So, i can remember all the players at my live table. I cannot do it 4tabling online, when players come and go. [/ QUOTE ] Looking at a player, I can make reads and remember them. It is a lot harder to remember if the player who is now on the table is the same one as yesterday. I mean Gary309234 and Gary34534 look like the same person, but it is nice to have some confirmation.
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#24
04-21-2006, 09:22 PM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I cannot do it 4tabling online, when players come and go. [/ QUOTE ] Gaining an advantage that not all players have by using a program. Ethical? [/ QUOTE ] PokerTracker and PokerAce are not some highly guarded secret of a wandering religious cult, they are available (and trial versions are even free) for anyone who has put any effort into improving their game. The more I read all the pokertracker hate out there, the more it makes me think that there are a lot of people out there who just can't make sense of / dont want to deal with all the numbers these programs produce.
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#25
04-21-2006, 10:14 PM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I cannot do it 4tabling online, when players come and go. [/ QUOTE ] Gaining an advantage that not all players have by using a program. Ethical? [/ QUOTE ] PokerTracker and PokerAce are not some highly guarded secret of a wandering religious cult, they are available (and trial versions are even free) for anyone who has put any effort into improving their game. The more I read all the pokertracker hate out there, the more it makes me think that there are a lot of people out there who just can't make sense of / dont want to deal with all the numbers these programs produce. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. The argument that the use of PT is unethical is absurd. While the arguments against it are valid, I don't believe they substantiate the idea that it's "unethical." Furthermore, ethics are specific to each person, so I admit that this argument that we're having is pointless. You can argue ethics, but it never gets you anywhere. With that said, I'm pretty sure the OP was asking about PT and dependency...not PT and its ethical implications. So let's get back on topic.
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#26
04-21-2006, 11:26 PM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone who plays predominately online and avails themselves to PokerTracker feel that they have become so dependent upon it that when they play at a live card room they don't trust their hand reading ability? [/ QUOTE ] I quit using pokertracker and HUD. I just use the force now.
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#27
04-22-2006, 12:13 AM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'll make this as short as possible. No. [/ QUOTE ] Seconded. I 8-table 6-max just fine with/without the use of HUDs. [/ QUOTE ] I think some people lack your ability [/ QUOTE ] Right, and their winrate is higher than it should be because of these stupid-ass tools.
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#28
04-22-2006, 01:46 AM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
Right, and their winrate is higher than it should be because of these stupid-ass tools. [/ QUOTE ] you sound old. Do you connect to the web via a rotary phone to avoid the ethical dilemma of having a faster connection then your competition?
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#29
04-22-2006, 02:18 AM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Right, and their winrate is higher than it should be because of these stupid-ass tools. [/ QUOTE ] you sound old. Do you connect to the web via a rotary phone to avoid the ethical dilemma of having a faster connection then your competition? [/ QUOTE ] I am old....and after 31 years of living, that is the worst analogy I've ever heard. But, I won't hold it against you because I like your avatar.
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#30
04-22-2006, 09:08 AM
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Re: PokerTracker Dependency?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Right, and their winrate is higher than it should be because of these stupid-ass tools. [/ QUOTE ] you sound old. Do you connect to the web via a rotary phone to avoid the ethical dilemma of having a faster connection then your competition? [/ QUOTE ] I am old....and after 31 years of living, that is the worst analogy I've ever heard. But, I won't hold it against you because I like your avatar. [/ QUOTE ] While the analogy is bad, it reminds me of a time years ago when I played an online game (Ultima Online, an MMORPG), and broadband users were in the extreme minority. Those who had broadband, maybe 5-10% of the players at the time, were at a distinct advantage by being able to act and react faster than dial up users. Was it unethical that I was using a tool that allowed me to be connected at higher speeds? Of course not. In any facet of life, an excuse for a disadvantage can never be, "he has more than I do at his disposal, so it's not fair." The playing field will never be level, in most anything (I'm sure there are exceptions to this). If you can use a tool to your advantage and you aren't cheating, breaking any laws, or severely harming anyone, you are stupid to not use it. Sure, you can make the argument that we are harming those who do not have PT...but this argument doesn't stand very strong. The fish will lose money either way. In fact, this may not even be perceived as harmful to them because, without a proper mindset for variance, they often think they are playing well (on an upswing). Like others have mentioned, there is also nothing stopping them from becoming better at the game. Anyone who has ever stepped foot in a Barnes & Noble or Borders has seen poker books, where 2+2 is prominently displayed. Sorry for the stupid pun, but any moron should be able to put 2 and 2 together. I apologize for instructing that the thread be put back on topic and then contributing to its off-topicness.
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