Hand.,.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
the llama has me convinced, I like the just call down and bet if checked to line if they guys capping range here is legit, but if he will cap OOP with weaker holdings then Im for a flop raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is where I ended up as well. I don't think he caps with 88 or 99, meaning calling down is probably best, and in this situation the value of a river bet is dubious.

[SparkyDog]

Haven't read any responses, and a read on button would be nice as I think it may affect UTG's capping range.

I'd call three times here. A raise just narrows his range down to hands we lose to. He'll still valuebet almost all the hands he'd cap preflop with if you don't raise, but he'll only call with a few hands you beat when you raise the flop. I don't worry about knocking out the button because if an overcard hits a lot of the times you're [censored] anyways.

[DeathDonkey]

I think you did good. Tough player would give more action with KK so he has weakly played Queens or he's calling down with ace high or capped a bit light with a smaller pair. You have to make sure these guys continue to call down with ace high against you - what I mean is, if he can just throw AK on the river here then you are doing something wrong somewhere else.

-DeathDonkey

[Vehn]

wow. Raise flop. How can you let KQ or Ad4d or something get a cheap closing the action card? ugh.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
wow. Raise flop. How can you let KQ or Ad4d or something get a cheap closing the action card? ugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, sure, let Llama talk us all into not raising and then show up and tell us to raise. Thanks a LOT.

What do you think about the whole let-something-like-A8-peel-drawing-dead argument?

[Vehn]

big pot win asap knockout suchandsuch blah blah blah.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
big pot win asap knockout suchandsuch blah blah blah.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the argument that we're either behind, or if we're ahead UTG has the other guy crushed anyway?

[Vehn]

I dunno I just don't think you're behind here that much and if you are to either player raising the flop is by far the best thing you can do as you'll be able to define their hand on the turn pretty easily. While button has a chance of drawing dead its still not THAT often that he is. By this point the pot is big and I'd want to lock it up as best I can, + get value against AK/AQs/99 since those hands will probably just give you 2.5 post flop bb instead of the 3 you get from raising the flop. So basically you're trading the small bet you'd get by calling the flop and letting the button in for a) a better chance of winning the pot by knocking out the button, b) a chance to better define your opponent's hands and c) you get the small bet that you lose from not letting in the button from UTG anyways!

[helpmeout]

Tough as hell isnt a read.

This hand is as standard as they get, you have to raise the flop because you dont want button to catch an Ace King or Queen or even just calling with random overcards that might pickup an additional draw.

[krishan]

Villain had QQ. I think he played it well. I'm still not sure if I played it well or not.

Krishan