The more I've read the more I've lost money

[MadMat]

[ QUOTE ]


I think you need to get to the .5/1 level before a book will give you a significant advantage in the game. I could be wrong because I started playing 2/4, but I've been that moron at a .02/.04 table raising every hand to the river no matter what, so I assume there are a lot of people doing that.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is good advice, assuming the OP can rustle up the bankroll I'd suggest trying to play at .5/1 (somewhere with a bonus to smooth out the inevitable varience)

Beating the nanos is easy once you know how, but the time and effort you put into learning to beat them is almost redundant once you move up as you just aren't going to find 8 players limping or 5+ players calling everytime you raise pre-flop!

I'm still working on fully understanding SSH, but I'm seeing it coming together much more at .5/1 than I ever did at the lower levels, where all I learnt was how to draw to just about every flush oppertunity I flopped!

(and to the OP, IMHO the way to beat the nanos is play big suited cards and all pocket pairs preflop, you are looking for sets and flushes / flush draws! hitting top pair is good, but it's even better if you have even just a b/door flush to improve to if the calling stations keep calling)

Mat

[Gregatron]

[ QUOTE ]

...assuming the OP can rustle up the bankroll I'd suggest trying to play at .5/1 (somewhere with a bonus to smooth out the inevitable varience)





...I'm still working on fully understanding SSH, but I'm seeing it coming together much more at .5/1 than I ever did at the lower levels, where all I learnt was how to draw to just about every flush oppertunity I flopped!



[/ QUOTE ]
No no no. Sorry, but no. I know you mean well, and don't want to discourage you from expressing yr opinion, but this is very very very wrong.

When you cannot beat the nanolimits, the solution is NOT to move up limits. It's really that simple. You should be CRUSHING nanolimit games before you move up to raked microlimit games.

[stormy455]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

...assuming the OP can rustle up the bankroll I'd suggest trying to play at .5/1 (somewhere with a bonus to smooth out the inevitable varience)





...I'm still working on fully understanding SSH, but I'm seeing it coming together much more at .5/1 than I ever did at the lower levels, where all I learnt was how to draw to just about every flush oppertunity I flopped!



[/ QUOTE ]
No no no. Sorry, but no. I know you mean well, and don't want to discourage you from expressing yr opinion, but this is very very very wrong.

When you cannot beat the nanolimits, the solution is NOT to move up limits. It's really that simple. You should be CRUSHING nanolimit games before you move up to raked microlimit games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you very much Greg. Keep beating this theme. If you can't beat the nano limits, it's going to be almost impossible to beat anything higher. What everyone here is missing is that this game is not about winning the most pots. It's about winning the most money. Yes, absolutely, without a doubt you will get sucked out on very often at the nano limits. But when you do win the pots should be HUGE (in relation to the bet size). Please, please everyone, do not encourage people to move up to play against better competition. That is plain wrong, and will cause people to lose more money.

[aheravi]

[ QUOTE ]
Read, re-read, re-re-read SSHE, then read it again. SSHE is geared specifically towards those games, and even if you have just a very basic understanding of the concepts presented, you'll be beating the nano-limit games easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree, and I'll be even more specific. Read, Re-read, then read AGAIN the parts about postflop play. Anyone can wait for the killer starting hands...not everyone can figure out what to do when it's 4 to the flop and you are still on a draw.

BTW...I still [censored] it up, too.

[shant]

My bad. I think I may it clear that I had never played those limits and wasn't sure about how it plays. Sorry if I lead anybody to the wrong conclusions.

[Gregatron]

Hey, it happens. It's cool. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am glad you post in here. No one is right all the time.

[ottsville]

There was just a similar post in the psych forum...it got some good replies.

So you've changed your game...do you understand why your making the changes to your game?

"Because Ed Miller said so" is not an answer...learning the why behind things like open raising some hands that you would limp with in MP vs other limpers is important to your game. When you understand the fundamentals and the reasons behind them, you will begin to understand why you want three players to call you down with some hands. It also makes it easier to adapt your play to different situations.

There may be several reasons why you are losing now. The first is simple variance. A bad/weak run of cards can last quite a stretch - into the 1000's of hands. The way to overcome this is to keep playing.

The second(mechanical) may be that you are just doing the wrong things. Things like open limping with weak suited connectors in late pos or applying the wrong strategy at the wrong time. Again, understanding the why behind the fundamentals will help. Keep studying.

Another thing may be that you are just not attuned to the new system you are using...you are out of sync with it. You will get better and the pieces will come together as you play. Apply your knowledge.


[ QUOTE ]
I've been very patient especially in 10 player limit ring games and I've waited for playable hands. But, every time I raise pre-flop at least 4-5 players call. Then if I miss the flop I pretty much have to fold every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a hand that warrants raising, you want callers PF(almost all the time). You raise because you have a hand that is expected to win money more than it's fair share of times. Exploit the strength of that hand, and realize that most people are making a mistake by calling your raise. Also realize, that at low limits people will sometimes call to the river with crap.

[AlGreenspan]

Boy you sound like Woody Allen in one of his movies and I can say this because I wrote about the same thing not very long ago. I am new and frustrated also at these limits. Now some of the reason for this is because I read the formum at the same time I am playing, as I am now. However, keep reading here and it will all right itself over the long haul.
Best Of Luck,
AG

[MadMat]

[ QUOTE ]

No no no. Sorry, but no. I know you mean well, and don't want to discourage you from expressing yr opinion, but this is very very very wrong.

When you cannot beat the nanolimits, the solution is NOT to move up limits. It's really that simple. You should be CRUSHING nanolimit games before you move up to raked microlimit games.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you say, everyone is entitled to thier opinion, and mine is that I really wish I had never played the nanolimits, I started of at 5p/10p and later moved to 25p/50p (wagerworks network) and did well in them, dunno if you'd call it crushing them! - I ran a £10 deposit up to around £300 in 2 months of playing 2-3 hours a night. (no PT stats I'm afraid this was before I knew about it)

And I'm struggling to adapt to the "tight" play I'm finding at .5/1 at sites like Cryptologic and Prima - Party is about the only .5/1 game I feel comfortable in, and then only at the 35%+ VP%IP tables!

The Nano limits let you get away with far too much stuff that is just wrong at higher limits like limping Axs UTG, constant cold calling with small PPs, chasing every gutshot and b/door draw - correct in games were 6-10 loose passives are seeing every flop and half of them see a showdown, but bad habbits to aquire when you want to move up to bigger and tighter games!

I really wish I hadn't bothered with the nano's, yes they gave me my bankroll for cheap, but they also gave me a complete disregard for basic concepts like position and pot odds - I'd read about them, but was doing just fine without actually applying them!

Mat

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]

The Nano limits let you get away with far too much stuff that is just wrong at higher limits like limping Axs UTG, constant cold calling with small PPs, chasing every gutshot and b/door draw - correct in games were 6-10 loose passives are seeing every flop and half of them see a showdown, but bad habbits to aquire when you want to move up to bigger and tighter games!


[/ QUOTE ]

Poker is about adjusting to the game you are in. If you're getting the odds to chase, then you chase. If you don't because you 'shouldn't', then you're playing badly. What is correct in one game may be incorrect in another. What is correct one night may be incorrect the next. An experienced poker player identifies the mood of the table and plays accordingly.

You say the nano's stuffed up your game? Well, I started off at 0.50/1 and I could say that that level stuffed my game too. Because I never chased, even when I was getting the odds to do so. My game was solid tight aggro but I failed to take advantage of situations outside of my view of how to play poker. If I saw a player hit a gutshot I automatically thought he was a fish, regardless of whether he had the pot odds or not to chase. I was ignorant of a lot of concepts. These boards fixed that for me.

You only feel comfortable playing at one site with tables over 35%. That sounds to me as if you don't know how to adjust yet. Which is perfectly fine. We're all learning. But take it from me. A friend and I once had a little wager to see who could get the highest winrate at 0.02/0.04 over 500 hands. I could only get 18.35BB/100 hands. My mate won with 23.75 or something similar.

Crushable.