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#1
03-22-2006, 03:24 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It is demonstrably untrue that socialist policies have eliminated a sense of nationality and heritage. Look at Russia or much of Eastern Europe. These are highly nationalistic countries with rich heritages. [/ QUOTE ] Gotcha. So when centralized socialist policies consume entire nations and prevent them from directing any sort of internal affairs, and renames them the Soviet Bloc, or simply considers them territory of Nazi Germany, this is actually thriving nationalism. Thanks for correcting me. [/ QUOTE ] The expansion of either the USSR or Nazi Germany (not a socialist country obviously) did not eliminate nationalism in the states they conquered. This is just an obvious empirical fact. You are also just confusing socialism with military expansion. 
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#2
03-22-2006, 03:29 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It is demonstrably untrue that socialist policies have eliminated a sense of nationality and heritage. Look at Russia or much of Eastern Europe. These are highly nationalistic countries with rich heritages. [/ QUOTE ] Gotcha. So when centralized socialist policies consume entire nations and prevent them from directing any sort of internal affairs, and renames them the Soviet Bloc, or simply considers them territory of Nazi Germany, this is actually thriving nationalism. Thanks for correcting me. [/ QUOTE ] The expansion of either the USSR or Nazi Germany (not a socialist country obviously) did not eliminate nationalism in the states they conquered. This is just an obvious empirical fact. You are also just confusing socialism with military expansion. [/ QUOTE ] Another example is China. EXTREMELY nationalistic.
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#3
03-22-2006, 09:04 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
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Another example is China. EXTREMELY nationalistic. [/ QUOTE ] Hong Kong is nationalistic, too. What happens to that nationalism when the supreme, centralized state of China consumes Hong Kong?
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#4
03-22-2006, 09:03 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
[ QUOTE ]
The expansion of either the USSR or Nazi Germany (not a socialist country obviously) did not eliminate nationalism in the states they conquered. This is just an obvious empirical fact. [/ QUOTE ] I was referring to the nations that supreme statism (socialism, fascism, other varieties) consume.
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#5
03-22-2006, 01:35 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
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The third point assumes that fixing problems must involve shrinking government. This maybe be true in the AC cyber fantasyland, but here in the real world we have a slightly more nuanced perspective that allows for the possibility that all problems may not simply require us to retrench the state. [/ QUOTE ] Gotcha. Problems are solved by expanding government. So when the US has its hands caught in every cookie jar in the world, and as a result it gets planes flown into its buildings in NYC, the solution to the problem is to expand and tighten its grip on every cookie jar in the world. Makes sense.
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#6
03-22-2006, 11:10 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] True or False: *Socialists killed the Jews because the Jews didn't fit in with their democratically elected central plan *Socialist policies have eliminated all sense of nationality and heritage *A Socialist government cannot fix its own problems because it cannot possibly allow itself to shrink, and hence solve its own problems [/ QUOTE ] (1) The Nazis were not socialists by any standard definition of that word. The socialists and communists during the Weimar Republic were in fact the Nazis biggest opposition. Why they killed the jews is a complicated issue. (2) It is demonstrably untrue that socialist policies have eliminated a sense of nationality and heritage. Look at Russia or much of Eastern Europe. These are highly nationalistic countries with rich heritages. (3) The third point assumes that fixing problems must involve shrinking government. This maybe be true in the AC cyber fantasyland, but here in the real world we have a slightly more nuanced perspective that allows for the possibility that all problems may not simply require us to retrench the state. [/ QUOTE ] 1) A nazi is a National Socialist. They used propaganda to smear communists to drum up there own support, and an eventul breaking of the non-agression pact with Russia. 2) Agreed. Socialism doesn't equal sans-nationalism. 3) I disagree. The OP and the article doesn't believe in an AC society. There is a huge difference between AC society and a small federal government that doesn't get into the buisness of regulating genocide nor rampant over-immigration and a nany state for them. Rolling back the government is a great thing for conservatives like me and liberals like Canis. It be great for everyone.
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#7
03-22-2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
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True or False: *Socialists killed the Jews because the Jews didn't fit in with their democratically elected central plan [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#9
03-22-2006, 02:02 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
"Socialists killed the Jews because the Jews didn't fit in with their democratically elected central plan"
People killed 6 millions Jews. Therefore all people are bad. If you want to call the Nazis socialists, go ahead. But they virulently hated any form of socialism other than their own national "socialism", they condemned and murdered socialists, and the vast vast majority of self-identified socialists are opponents of Nazi ideology. Your quote from the Spanish newspaper, if it was as approving as I assume it is, strongly inclines me to call you a disgusting racial superiorist piece of sh1t.
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#10
03-22-2006, 02:06 PM
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Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
[ QUOTE ]
"Socialists killed the Jews because the Jews didn't fit in with their democratically elected central plan" People killed 6 millions Jews. Therefore all people are bad. If you want to call the Nazis socialists, go ahead. But they virulently hated any form of socialism other than their own national "socialism", they condemned and murdered socialists, and the vast vast majority of self-identified socialists are opponents of Nazi ideology. Your quote from the Spanish newspaper, if it was as approving as I assume it is, strongly inclines me to call you a disgusting racial superiorist piece of sh1t. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah to say that the Holocaust was caused by socialist idealogy is the most retarded thing I've heard in my brief visit to the Politics forum.
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