Trivially easy preflop spot

[ama0330]

Playing 77 in an OOP limped pot is pretty easy. Just complete and get to SD. I think that raising is probably the worst option, I would rather just open shove than raise. I think that complete>>>shove>>>raise

[DaycareInferno]

i make a normal raise and c/c like almost any flop. 10 bux dawg.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing 77 in an OOP limped pot is pretty easy. Just complete and get to SD. I think that raising is probably the worst option, I would rather just open shove than raise. I think that complete>>>shove>>>raise

[/ QUOTE ]

this isn't a normal limped pot.

CO posted before he saw his cards - it is profitable to raise ATC in this situation even more so if we are closing the action. In fact we can assume that CO has trash cos is he had a reasonable hand it's likely he would have raised. We can now pretty much discount TT+ from his range and that leaves only 2 hands we are behind 88 and 99.

I think when we have a small pair pushing preflop is very close to raising and pushing any flop >>>>>> completing >>>>>>>>>> folding

If we raise preflop and get called we can open shove any flop profitably with ATC - and we makes more profit when we have a hand (cos sometimes we get called and win the SD) than we do if we had 93o or similar.

Most of the time CO folds preflop - ~60% of the times he calls he folds the flop cos he missed it we don't need a hand to make money out of those numbers.

I think that completing here loses lots of value. (for starters if we bet the flop after completing and villain folds the rake means we make less money than we do if we raise pre and villain folds as preflop pots aren't raked.)

If CO was a normal limper with a 20bb SS then I like to complete and keep my implied odds goot cos then a raise preflop is rarely going to fold villain and any flop bet commits us.

[well named]

[ QUOTE ]
The EV cals in the bottom half of your post are ignoring the $5.75 already in the pot on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. What's being shown is the expected value of the flop bet. Given the assumptions (and the caveats that come with them) you expect your 7.50 bet to net 1.50. You can do the same calc using total pot sizes and you will change the final result numerically but the idea will be the same. For every $20.75 pot you will have some net return in positive expectation.

[ QUOTE ]
If you WIN the $5.25 pot twice....and you started with $10...

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't start with 10 effective stacks, you started with 7.50, since we are calculating the equity of the bet on the flop, at which point 2.50 is already in the pot and is no longer ours. The distinction between the flop/preflop equity and action is important because our assumptions are about a given situation at the flop, and aren't considering preflop actions or equities at all. It's entirely possible that starting preflop there is more equity in some action other than a 2.50 raise (as ama suggests) but that isn't being considered in my calculation.

All that said, I'm not really an old hand at all this, and I decided to do it partly for my own edification, so it's quite possible I'm making a boneheaded mistake and I'd be gratified to have it pointed out to me. Caveat emptor and all that.

[ QUOTE ]
Playing 77 in an OOP limped pot is pretty easy. Just complete and get to SD.

[/ QUOTE ]

It just seems intuitive to me that playing this way gives up a lot of value. A CO poster with 20bb has open-checked, I feel like 77 is ahead of virtually his entire range, so I can raise purely for value because I think there are more hands he will call or shove with that are behind than that are ahead. Raising also has the added equity that he may fold some hands pre-flop or to a flop bet that would be getting sufficient odds to call, thereby making a mistake (by the fundamental theorum) and increasing my equity even more.

Besides that, raising takes the initiative and makes it easier for me to play the hand without making a mistake. If I check and the flop comes AT8r I feel like I am more likely to make a mistake and lose value than I am when I raise preflop.

Could you elaborate a little on how you would play postflop after checking, you're a better player than me so I would be curious to hear your thoughts on this.

Edit: Matrix, Jinx [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]