gutter+fd a little deep

[Nick Royale]

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i like the fact that we are deep, it gives us better FE. i'm not sure how much FE we have but we only need a tiny bit to make a profit

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25% isn't a tiny bit. What do you guys wanting to felt put him on after raising the flop?

[sh58]

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i like the fact that we are deep, it gives us better FE. i'm not sure how much FE we have but we only need a tiny bit to make a profit

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25% isn't a tiny bit. What do you guys wanting to felt put him on after raising the flop?

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i definitely think he will fold 25% of the time, the only hand we are scared of is AK of hearts really. i put him on KQ, AQ, AK hearts, AQ of hearts, an overpair a set. i think alot of people will raise and then fold to a shove, especially if stacks are deep. although alot of people would also call with an overpair or TPGK/TPTK.

[Isura]

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i like the fact that we are deep, it gives us better FE. i'm not sure how much FE we have but we only need a tiny bit to make a profit

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25% isn't a tiny bit. What do you guys wanting to felt put him on after raising the flop?

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Even nits can show up with a bluff some % of the time. Donking into the PFR seems to irritate most players.

[Nick Royale]

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i like the fact that we are deep, it gives us better FE. i'm not sure how much FE we have but we only need a tiny bit to make a profit

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25% isn't a tiny bit. What do you guys wanting to felt put him on after raising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely think he will fold 25% of the time, the only hand we are scared of is AK of hearts really. i put him on KQ, AQ, AK hearts, AQ of hearts, an overpair a set. i think alot of people will raise and then fold to a shove, especially if stacks are deep. although alot of people would also call with an overpair or TPGK/TPTK.



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Ok, then this is where we don't agree. I don't think he'll raise hands he's not planning to stack off frequently. I don't think he'll raise KQ often at all. Not often AQ either tbh. And the part about us only fearing AKhh doesn't make sense, but feel free to explain what you meant.

Btw he probably needs to fold more like 30%+, because against his calling range we'll have less than 40% eq which I used in the calc. I don't think we even have 25% though.

[Nick Royale]

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i like the fact that we are deep, it gives us better FE. i'm not sure how much FE we have but we only need a tiny bit to make a profit

[/ QUOTE ]
25% isn't a tiny bit. What do you guys wanting to felt put him on after raising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even nits can show up with a bluff some % of the time. Donking into the PFR seems to irritate most players.

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Ok. If you're saying this is a bluff a significant portion from a 16/11 I don't agree. Esp 3-ways.

[yad]

Is villain much less likely to CB on this board given your description of UTG? If so, does he know that you know this?

If the answer to both questions are yes, then I like a 3bet.

If not, then I like a call/do something clever on the turn.

[sh58]

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i like the fact that we are deep, it gives us better FE. i'm not sure how much FE we have but we only need a tiny bit to make a profit

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25% isn't a tiny bit. What do you guys wanting to felt put him on after raising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely think he will fold 25% of the time, the only hand we are scared of is AK of hearts really. i put him on KQ, AQ, AK hearts, AQ of hearts, an overpair a set. i think alot of people will raise and then fold to a shove, especially if stacks are deep. although alot of people would also call with an overpair or TPGK/TPTK.



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Ok, then this is where we don't agree. I don't think he'll raise hands he's not planning to stack off frequently. I don't think he'll raise KQ often at all. Not often AQ either tbh. And the part about us only fearing AKhh doesn't make sense, but feel free to explain what you meant.

Btw he probably needs to fold more like 30%+, because against his calling range we'll have less than 40% eq which I used in the calc. I don't think we even have 25% though.

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you wouldn't be saying that when they raise fold all the time when you have a set. you donk, they raise, you giggle in anticipation of winning a nice pot against their overpair, and they fold.....

we have decent equity against a set is all i mean when i say AK of hearts is the only hand we are scared of. we don't wanna be suits dominated (obviously)

[Nick Royale]

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you wouldn't be saying that when they raise fold all the time when you have a set. you donk, they raise, you giggle in anticipation of winning a nice pot against their overpair, and they fold.....


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Umm, I giggle because they always stack off...


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we have decent equity against a set is all i mean when i say AK of hearts is the only hand we are scared of. we don't wanna be suits dominated (obviously)

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We fear AQhh against which we have 13% eq. The eq vs set and AKhh is almost the same.

[sh58]

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you wouldn't be saying that when they raise fold all the time when you have a set. you donk, they raise, you giggle in anticipation of winning a nice pot against their overpair, and they fold.....


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Umm, I giggle because they always stack off...


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we have decent equity against a set is all i mean when i say AK of hearts is the only hand we are scared of. we don't wanna be suits dominated (obviously)

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We fear AQhh against which we have 13% eq. The eq vs set and AKhh is almost the same.

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yeah got my knickers in a twist, AQ of hearts is the one that screws us.

the reason i love stacking off here is because even if it is marginal as you have shown, it balances our play. it is horrible to just lead/3bet with sets.

i know you are gonna say metagame doesn't matter against someone at this level and i think you are right to a degree, but i think most people who witness this hand if you shove will never fold again in a similar spot, where you have a set.

say we need him to fold 25% and you believe he will fold %15, so we lose a tiny bit of equity in that hand. but every percentage gained in the same situation when we have a set is worth alot more then the percentage lost, because when we have a set he will have 5% equity. so the image difference only has to be small to make a pretty noticeable difference in the longterm.

[2Paul2]

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Results?

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Poker Stars, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $1,128.25
Hero (SB): $679
BB: $386.95
UTG: $1,063.90
MP: $467
CO: $647.95

Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG calls $4, 2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $16</font>, Hero calls $14, BB folds, UTG calls $12

Flop: ($52) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $40</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $116</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $348</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $1,112.25 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $315 and is All-In

Turn: ($1,378) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($1,378) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $1,378 Pot ($3 Rake)
BTN showed A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Queens) and LOST (-$679 NET)
Hero showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a flush, Queen high) and WON $1,375 (+$696 NET)