AJs in 3bet pot against LAG - Page 3

MyironThumb · #21 10-10-2007, 02:00 PM

orange, quick question. if we bet this flop (say $38 into the $51 pot) do we HAVE to call a CR all in? probably just a simple question about pot odds etc, but were generally toast yeh?

tbaarslag · #22 10-10-2007, 02:01 PM

Thanks, I will take your advice to heart (as I think you're an excellent poster).

orange · #23 10-10-2007, 02:06 PM

i think that b/f-ing this flop is horrible- if you aren't betting for value, what are you betting for? bluff? protection? (not really many hands crush us here). i don't see any point in a flop bet if you aren't content with getting it in to a c/r.

we have good showdown value and if you arent sure how to handle a c/r, then don't bet. also, as stated earlier, don't 3bet pf if you don't think you're ahead of his calling range. (which is debatable in itself). you think he'll call with worse aces but if his calling range of your RR is strictly AQ/AK then why do it to begin with? doesnt make any sense.

Mjafish · #24 10-10-2007, 02:11 PM

preflop: don't like the 3bet utg raiser with AJ. Given that you did, I think it was played fine postflop except for river: call this as played. Your hand looks like TT-KK, and villain is aggro.

imozyslow · #25 10-10-2007, 02:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think that b/f-ing this flop is horrible- if you aren't betting for value, what are you betting for? bluff? protection? (not really many hands crush us here). i don't see any point in a flop bet if you aren't content with getting it in to a c/r.

we have good showdown value and if you arent sure how to handle a c/r, then don't bet. also, as stated earlier, don't 3bet pf if you don't think you're ahead of his calling range. (which is debatable in itself). you think he'll call with worse aces but if his calling range of your RR is strictly AQ/AK then why do it to begin with? doesnt make any sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

preflop discussions are usually pretty bland. however, i think this thread illuminates why 3-betting an UTG raiser with this hand is problematic b/c we get a v good flop for our hand in a three bet pot and still are unsure of how to play our hand profitably post flop againt his pf CALLING range.

orange · #26 10-10-2007, 02:15 PM

agreed imoz.

HoldEmNewby · #27 10-10-2007, 02:16 PM

do you see villain ever making a hero call with worse if we push the turn?

MyironThumb · #28 10-10-2007, 02:32 PM

thanks orange, some good advice in this thread

SinkRox · #29 10-10-2007, 02:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the 3bet PF if you fold river.
What flop were you hoping for? AAJ?

Your hand looks like TT-KK and vilain is LAG : I call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^ Sounds spot on to me.

[ QUOTE ]
do you see villain ever making a hero call with worse if we push the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

^^ Unlikely imo (We dont have enough of a read on his pf calling range let alone post flop stack off range here)

Chicago Twister · #30 10-10-2007, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
don't 3bet pf if you don't think you're ahead of his calling range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this is what I don't agree with. Just because he will only call with say AK doesn't mean he has AK every time, so you can't say only 3bet hands ahead of his calling range.

The purpose of the 3bet is to take the pot down now. The fact that we have a hand that might give us showdown value is just an escape route when we do see a flop -- not the reason for the 3bet.