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#21
10-07-2007, 11:50 AM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd probably check/fold because by the way you described him he could even raise you without an ace [/ QUOTE ] dont you see you're talking insane stuff aswell? you would fold because he would bet worse hands?! [/ QUOTE ] If you bet here and he raises, what's your plan? [/ QUOTE ] That's what I was trying to establish, that if he raises you, you have no idea where you're at but with the scare card out there you'd have to fold 
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#22
10-07-2007, 11:51 AM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd probably check/fold because by the way you described him he could even raise you without an ace [/ QUOTE ] dont you see you're talking insane stuff aswell? you would fold because he would bet worse hands?! [/ QUOTE ] actually, if he is capable of firing multiple barrels w/ worse hands, and value-betting multiple streets w/ better hands, then folding is best. Just because you're ahead of his range on the flop doesnt mean you can get to showdown profitably OOP. [/ QUOTE ] I dont understand how folding when you're ahead is ever good. bet/call (reval turn) check/call bet/shove all seem better then check/call against him if you're often ahead
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#23
10-07-2007, 11:53 AM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd probably check/fold because by the way you described him he could even raise you without an ace [/ QUOTE ] dont you see you're talking insane stuff aswell? you would fold because he would bet worse hands?! [/ QUOTE ] actually, if he is capable of firing multiple barrels w/ worse hands, and value-betting multiple streets w/ better hands, then folding is best. Just because you're ahead of his range on the flop doesnt mean you can get to showdown profitably OOP. [/ QUOTE ] I dont understand how folding when you're ahead is ever good. bet/call (reval turn) check/call bet/shove all seem better then check/call against him if you're often ahead [/ QUOTE ] But how often are we ahead? If he keeps firing until showdown then he may even catch up
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#24
10-07-2007, 11:54 AM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd probably check/fold because by the way you described him he could even raise you without an ace [/ QUOTE ] dont you see you're talking insane stuff aswell? you would fold because he would bet worse hands?! [/ QUOTE ] actually, if he is capable of firing multiple barrels w/ worse hands, and value-betting multiple streets w/ better hands, then folding is best. Just because you're ahead of his range on the flop doesnt mean you can get to showdown profitably OOP. [/ QUOTE ] I dont understand how folding when you're ahead is ever good. bet/call (reval turn) check/call bet/shove all seem better then check/call against him if you're often ahead [/ QUOTE ] But how often are we ahead? If he keeps firing until showdown then he may even catch up [/ QUOTE ] if he checks he might aswell catch up .. =s
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#25
10-07-2007, 11:55 AM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd probably check/fold because by the way you described him he could even raise you without an ace [/ QUOTE ] dont you see you're talking insane stuff aswell? you would fold because he would bet worse hands?! [/ QUOTE ] actually, if he is capable of firing multiple barrels w/ worse hands, and value-betting multiple streets w/ better hands, then folding is best. Just because you're ahead of his range on the flop doesnt mean you can get to showdown profitably OOP. [/ QUOTE ] I dont understand how folding when you're ahead is ever good. bet/call (reval turn) check/call bet/shove all seem better then check/call against him if you're often ahead [/ QUOTE ] bet/calling this flop would be horrible, when you're ahead you are slightly ahead, when you're behind you have 2 outs. c/c would be better, but still bad if you mean c/c all the way down, because being ahead of his pf range + flop betting range is not the same as being ahead of his range for multiple barrels. shoving anywhere is bad wtf do you want him to call with? you are thinking of the hand as if we had a "skip to showdown" button. since we dont, we'll usually lose tons of money trying to get there on this board vs an aggressive opponent.
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#27
10-07-2007, 12:04 PM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
Well then bet/fold seems like the best line doesnt it? Or are we reraising him here preflop to hit a set? [/ QUOTE ] bet/fold seems fine to me edit: but even if we c/f most bad flops for our hand its not the same as set-mining, although obv im not advocating that
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#28
10-07-2007, 12:06 PM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
Well then bet/fold seems like the best line doesnt it? [/ QUOTE ]If you bet ~15$ and get raised AI you're getting about 4 to 1 since Hero is not fullstacked. You really think bet/fold is best?
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#29
10-07-2007, 12:08 PM
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Re: $50 6max: JJ RR pf, Ace comes on flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well then bet/fold seems like the best line doesnt it? [/ QUOTE ]If you bet ~15$ and get raised AI you're getting about 4 to 1 since Hero is not fullstacked. You really think bet/fold is best? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. You're getting 4 to 1 and drawing to 2 outs so you have to let it go. If you don't take a stab at this flop, then you might aswell just not 3bet preflop and play for setvalue with your jacks. Are you giving up any A, K, Q-high flop if you're holding jacks in a heads-up pot?
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