JTs

[Smurph64]

Yeah it could be good if everyone thinks this is a call. Good luck with that however.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Loose table (about 25% villains see flop)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I hadn't really read your read (above) that closely, I just saw "loose." Being that this is 10-handed, 25% seeing the flop is 2-3 players per hand which is not very loose. That said, you took a flop 8-handed so it looks really loose, and the way this board sets up even the weakest draws have something else (89 is an oesd, j9 too, K9 is an overcard + gutty, A7...do you really think somebody is folding A7 in a big pot like this), and getting 5:1 you're looking for 6 outs to peel, 8 outs for a righteous call. So, you're looking for people to incorrectly fold to protect your hand, and, again, big family pot makes your FE sub-zero against the whole field, in a hand where 8 people saw the flop.

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah it could be good if everyone thinks this is a call. Good luck with that however.

[/ QUOTE ]

This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense. What exactly are you trying to say?

Buzz

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah it could be good if everyone thinks this is a call. Good luck with that however.

[/ QUOTE ]

This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense. What exactly are you trying to say?

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

He's saying that calling isn't bad if all 7 of your opponents call along with you, but that's not likely.

[Smurph64]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

736,317 games 46.390 secs 15,872 games/sec

Board: Qs 7d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 12.403% 10.94% 01.51% 80565 11129.33 { JdTd }
Hand 1: 16.786% 15.75% 01.10% 115971 8123.42 { 66+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 23.434% 21.97% 01.56% 161784 11454.58 { TT+, A9s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 3: 12.989% 12.14% 00.90% 89402 6618.17 { 44+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J6s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A2o+, K6o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+ }
Hand 4: 12.279% 11.55% 00.78% 85064 5707.00 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J6o+, T6o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o }
Hand 5: 09.360% 08.83% 00.57% 65019 4179.67 { random }
Hand 6: 12.749% 12.10% 00.70% 89107 5142.83 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }


---

12.5% equity roughly in this pot. So you need 8:1 to call.

It's just there I believe. But if we get a reraise what happens then?


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

776,130 games 39.641 secs 19,578 games/sec

Board: Qs 7d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 09.785% 08.59% 01.23% 66696 9513.17 { JdTd }
Hand 1: 15.110% 14.16% 01.00% 109920 7760.33 { 66+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 20.526% 19.16% 01.44% 148686 11178.67 { TT+, A9s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 3: 11.869% 11.04% 00.87% 85671 6767.42 { 44+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J6s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A2o+, K6o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+ }
Hand 4: 11.284% 10.57% 00.75% 82060 5827.00 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J6o+, T6o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o }
Hand 5: 19.483% 18.22% 01.34% 141377 10362.83 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, Q2s+, J9s+, T9s, ATo+, KTo+, Q2o+, J9o+, T9o }
Hand 6: 11.943% 11.34% 00.65% 87989 5025.58 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }


---

Now we need 10 to 1 if original raiser doesn't 3 bet it. And 11 to 1 if he does (tightening his range a bit)

Numbers aren't as bad as I thought. However expecting the action to continue favourably is less and less likely.

This might be another peel 1 and fold to two situation.

I think the odds of getting it to go to the turn for only 1 are slimmer than the odds of my draw.

I am pretty sure you are peeling one and one at the very least.

This makes my head spin.

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah it could be good if everyone thinks this is a call. Good luck with that however.

[/ QUOTE ]

This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense. What exactly are you trying to say?

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

He's saying that calling isn't bad if all 7 of your opponents call along with you, but that's not likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh ok..I thought I was reading something like "I like your line if everyone else posting here does too" So, nm.

[Bulletproof Monk]

obviously call the flop

btw a general point: why are you playing with $16?

[JJack]

[ QUOTE ]
obviously call the flop

btw a general point: why are you playing with $16?

[/ QUOTE ]

I start playing at table with about 25BB
and add chips when I go down about half or even less (10-12BB)
I have never need more then half even with my speculative hands (if its enought to cap turn/river and limp PF and raise flop)

Also its easier to control how game is doing (+ or -)

[Bulletproof Monk]

if it works for you then it works for you and there is no real issue in terms of strict ev provided you reload at about the level you said, so this isnt criticism.

but i think most 2+2ers buy in for at least like 50BB or so. it helps with the psychological aspect as its harder to lose a buyin, and it also gives them more focus on the game as they dont have to spend time reloading as often.

this isnt even really advice, but just something to think about maybe.

[JJack]

nice tips