How Could Christians Vote in George W.?

[wtfsvi]

If I believe a person is infallible and his views defines morality, then yes, I think I'd do exactly as he said.

[Mempho]

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wow, OP I don't think you understand american politics at all, or have a working understanding of Christianity at all (I'm agnostic now, but was raised Lutheran)

1.) Christians, Catholics, w/e don't take orders from the pope in their voting.
2.) Christians, Catholics, w/e aren't pacifists
3.) GWB wasn't voted in 2000 to go to war with Iraq
4.) Overwhelmingly, both Democrats and Republicans supported going into Iraq, so there was no peace party in 2004. So who the hell would Christians vote for then?
5.) Christian votes tend to run along sociological issues, such as abortion, homosexual rights and so on.

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My OP was on eschatalogy and didn't touch on pacifism or the Pope. Since you asked, however, I have read the entirety of the New Testamant and I don't see anything that would support war, much less a preemptive one.

As for #5, should a Christian vote for a globalist imperialist candidate if said candidate is against abortion and gay marriage? Now, I've heard of many Christians removing W stickers and such from their cars in the past year but it is now 2007 and he still has some Christian support, which is surprising.

When his approval rating gets down to about 15% or so, then it will probably be just nonreligious neocons left...but until then he's still getting support from somewhere.

[Copernicus]

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Has anyone even thought about this? I was replying in another thread and...boom, this hit me like a ton of bricks.

With all of the conspiracy theories ranging from the North American Union to the New World Order (from his dad's speech) to his participation in Skull and Bones all the way down to his creation of the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, and his HHS Secretary's (Tommy Thompson) participation on the board of Verichip (now branded as Xmark), how in the world did Christians vote this guy in? Even more ghastly, how are there still some that support him?

Of all of the sects of society to be against Big Brother and against government control, it should be the Christians, right?

Further, of all the people, why pick someone who wants to go to war with the entire Middle East?

Does any of this make sense or ring a bell or am I the only one that sees the irony?

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The irony is that you ask why anyone who believes in an old man in the sky would think logically enough to vote for anyone.

[vhawk01]

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The Vatican has condemned, many times, the Iraq war and war in general. So that's part of your answer.

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I don't think Catholics came out overwhelmingly in support of Bush, although I could be wrong. We've sort of gotten to the point where Catholics aren't the "Christians" we mean when we say Christians. I don't mean this as an insult to Catholics at all (rather more the opposite, actually) and I'm not saying Catholics aren't Christians. But GW's Christian base is not Catholic.

[vhawk01]

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Doesn't make any sense at all to me. Why would Christians be more scared of big brother?

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Let me review the what the most common Christian eschatalogical (end times) beliefs are (in basically chronological order):

1) Israel becomes a state again (Check)
2) World consolidated into 10 kingdoms, countries, superstates
3) The Rapture (Christians vanish from the face of the earth although the scriptural support for this is highly debated. Nevertheless, the popular fiction series "Left Behind" used the rapture. Some believe that Christians will face the Tribulation.)

The Tribulation

4) 10 Kingdoms are consolidated into a one-world government

5) The Antichrist rises to take the throne of an oppressive, inescapable world government
6) Billions die due to wars, famines, death due to the reign of the brutal Antichrist (throughout)
7) Antichrist forces everyone to take a mark (the Greek text actually says "in") on his wrist or forehead. Failure to take the mark means that one can not buy or sell anything (death implied). Taking the mark means automatic eternal damnation.
8) Mystery Babylon is destroyed (some say the Catholic Church...others say it is a superpower within the global community that is hated by all the other nations):

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Revelation 17
The Woman and the Beast
1One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."

3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

9"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

15Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

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9) Antichrist is "killed" and stages a "false resurrection"

10) Antichrist proclaims he is God and forces all to worship him

11) A 200 million man army (exactly from Revalation) marches into the Middle East (towards Israel) from the East (China is usually cited) (possibly a cival war???)
12) Battle of Armageddon ensues in the valley of Megiddo in Israel
13) Jesus Christ returns and defeats the Antichrist without firing a shot.

Most scholars put the Tribulation as a 7 year period of "hell on earth." There's plenty more, but those are the highlights.

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To a Christian, Armageddon is a GOOD thing, you know that right?

[lehighguy]

Most people who are religous don't follow every single tenet of thier religion. Doing everything the Pope says is one of them.

Also, isn't this whole thread about people doing whatever they want and not following the Bible.

[vhawk01]

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1.) Christians, Catholics, w/e don't take orders from the pope in their voting.

[/ QUOTE ] Why would catholics not take orders from the pope?

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Because they are individuals, not a collective? Do you take every order from the top of an organization you are in?

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I would if I thought he spoke for God.

[PLOlover]

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Quote:

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Christ was undeniably pacifist, not just with regard to war but with regard to everything.



what about when he beat up the moneylenders in the temple?



Read the passage again.

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come on, I look stuff up to make my points. didn't he overturn the tables and get violent?

[Mempho]

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The Vatican has condemned, many times, the Iraq war and war in general. So that's part of your answer.

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I don't think Catholics came out overwhelmingly in support of Bush, although I could be wrong. We've sort of gotten to the point where Catholics aren't the "Christians" we mean when we say Christians. I don't mean this as an insult to Catholics at all (rather more the opposite, actually) and I'm not saying Catholics aren't Christians. But GW's Christian base is not Catholic.

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Granted, it is more evangelical. Since the evangelicals believe so much in the literalism of Revalation so much, that makes this all the more bizarre, though.

After all, one prerequisite to "Left Behind" theology is that you have to believe that one day there will be a conspiracy to bring about totalitarian, one-world government rule.

Now, is it just me or do you not want to stay away from a guy who just drips conspiracy theory and who launches preemptive wars in the Middle East based upon fabricated evidence?

So, if you happen to think that someone's crazy for believing Bible prophecy in the first place, how much crazier would it make them if they voted in Bush anyway?

EDIT: I may have spoken too soon...check out the WorldNetDaily forums:

http://forums.wnd.com/index.php?fa=P...w&pageId=6

[vhawk01]

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The Vatican has condemned, many times, the Iraq war and war in general. So that's part of your answer.

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I don't think Catholics came out overwhelmingly in support of Bush, although I could be wrong. We've sort of gotten to the point where Catholics aren't the "Christians" we mean when we say Christians. I don't mean this as an insult to Catholics at all (rather more the opposite, actually) and I'm not saying Catholics aren't Christians. But GW's Christian base is not Catholic.

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Granted, it is more evangelical. Since the evangelicals believe so much in the literalism of Revalation so much, that makes this all the more bizarre, though.

After all, one prerequisite to "Left Behind" theology is that you have to believe that one day there will be a conspiracy to bring about totalitarian, one-world government rule.

Now, is it just me or do you not want to stay away from a guy who just drips conspiracy theory and who launches preemptive wars in the Middle East based upon fabricated evidence?

So, if you happen to think that someone's crazy for believing Bible prophecy in the first place, how much crazier would it make them if they voted in Bush anyway?

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Again, I think you are missing the point. If I believed in the literal veracity of the Bible I would be doing everything possible to bring about Armageddon and the rapture. Why aren't you?