Checking the turn in position

[rzk]

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The reasons to why you bet are:

1.You have a good chance to fold out better hands.


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I don't think that's true on this board.



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from this statement i take it that you don't think he'll fold too many ace high hands if you bet. if that's so, it's an easy check.

but if he does fold them you have a chance to pick up the pot up to 1/3 of the time (assuming he peels with all ace high hands on the flop) - that would be a great victory at the cost of just 1 bet.

[HoneyBadger]

I think you ought to check behind that second one. You have a gutter, and a potential live overcard. If you bet and he raises you will get 7:1 on a call, which is a tough fold considering your outs. (that was regarding the AQ hand. the 1st is a good one to check behind, the 2nd is less clear cut as you have a fairly strong draw (oesd) with little showdoen value, so a bet is probably better.

"checking with outs" is generally wrong; it depends on how many outs. If you have a lot of outs it doesn't matter so much if you get raised, as you have an easy call, and probably would've even called 2 cold. However, if you only hold a very weak draw in a small pot, you would like to see if you hit on the river card; however, you would never pay two cold for that. So you generally check. It also, of course, depends on other factors, such as how dry the board is and how likely you are to be check-raised. If your opponent never check raises, you may as well bet for a free showdown. Against passives you often have a bet, whereas against more aggressive players, or passive but habitual turn-check raises (you know the type, c/c flop, c/r turn on any good hand) you should check.

(Did you ever hear the line, "Fish give too many free cards"? So why not take some, at certain times? Why always make yourself pay and correcting their "mistake" of not betting?)

[kidcolin]

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I think you ought to check behind that second one. You have a gutter, and a potential live overcard. If you bet and he raises you will get 7:1 on a call, which is a tough fold considering your outs.


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Disagreed. This is a perfect spot to fire a second barrel. Sure, the board is draw heavy, but at this level, donks are peeling with naked aces. Plus, we're ahead of all his non-paired draw hands (53, 65, 86, T8, etc), so we've got a decent shot at winning UI. Firing the river, however, is useless.

Also note, we can't fold if we're c/r'd on the turn. We've got more than enough odds with our straight draw, especially considering a passive player is unlikely to be pulling this move with spades (except maybe As9s, but even still I think it's rare).