Pooh Bah Dissertation Chapter 1: Big Pots vs Small Pots

[OziBattler]

nice post Kit.

Oh and ignore QueBobs post ... he was trolltastic yesterday.

[James.]

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Oh and ignore QueBobs post ... he was trolltastic yesterday.

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this time he's getting the benefit of the doubt.

Quebob,

if you don't like something someone has posted, feel free to ignore it. i'm assuming you misunderstood the spirit of Kit/Chino's post. i'm sure these personal attacks won't happen again.

Kit/Chino,

nice post. you've contributed alot to the forum as of late, and it's appreciated.

btw, where's the Sept. Digest? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Xhad]

Good post. One thing I would add is that there is no magic line between "big pot" and "small pot" and what constitutes either changes based on the precise situation you are in. For example, is 7SB a big pot or a small pot? Does your opinion change if the flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] vs. A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ? 4SB might be considered a "big pot" if it's a drawless flop and you think no one is likely to have a real hand. On the other hand, I've folded a set in a 30BB pot on the river for one bet closing the action (it was a 4-straight, 3flush board and I had 3rd set facing an overcall of a river checkraise from a passive player).

[James.]

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For example, is 7SB a big pot or a small pot?

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in NL we learn that a pot is "big" when it's large proportionate to the stack sizes.

similarly, in LHE i consider a pot "big" when it's large relative to the current bet size. according to this reasoning, a 7sb pot is big if you're on a small bet street.

of course that still leaves the definition of "large" or "big" a bit undefined. going beyond the bet size, you need to assess the games inwhich you play. there was a point in time(old party days) when i didn't consider a final pot "big" unless it was 9 or 10 BB. now my definition has changed considerably.

in the online games i play now, if a pot reaches 6BB i consider it "big". of course that's assessing the average pot size of the games in relation to the average number of outs and/or hand ranges that can profitably call a bet to draw or showdown given that potsize.

going back to the point at hand, putting out max effort to win a large pot. your exact play depends on the size of the pot and the opponents at hand. knowing your opponents is highly important. on the turn or river, sometimes it's correct to checkraise an aggressive LP player with bottom pair(or worse) if the size of the pot and other conditions(board/opponents) warrant it. this would be on the extreme end of aggressive play in a big pot. the key concept is there comes a point when the extra bet you spend is rewarded by the fact that you win the pot one more time in ten or twenty(or however many) occurrences than you would have otherwise.

the larger the pot, the less expensive some seemingly "hopeless" plays turn out to be assuming you isolate the player or players desired.

i referenced NL play earlier. there's a concept in NL when you get to certain stack sizes that you become "deep stacked". this requires certain changes in commitment thresholds and strategy of play, among other things. in limit, i believe there is a parallel to this "deepstack" effect. it's utilizing "big pot" strategy which results in navigating through a hand with a specific purpose. no longer do you solely intend to maximize value; you try to win that pot. this is contraindicative of being taught over the years to "win money, not pots", but nonetheless it is an exception to the otherwise hard-fastened rule.

[Jake (The Snake)]

This is the kind of post more people should be making. Think theoretically.

[Hyperrrprank]

Fantastic post. One of those things that some of us know, but don't always keep in mind in the throes of trained aggression. Thanks Kit, this will make me a richer person (literally).

[Sushiglutton]

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On the other hand, I've folded a set in a 30BB pot on the river for one bet closing the action (it was a 4-straight, 3flush board and I had 3rd set facing an overcall of a river checkraise from a passive player).

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Would you have won?