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  #21  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:33 PM
jk3a jk3a is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

i check the turn, as played, it's prob close. whatever
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  #22  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:43 PM
inverted inverted is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

river is terrible.... check/call
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:51 PM
Mc_AD Mc_AD is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

LAGtard on the river : ZOMG I has a fool housse, SHOVE SHOVE SHOVE !!!
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2007, 11:43 PM
ttgirl ttgirl is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

like someone said, every street except flop is gross.
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  #25  
Old 09-19-2007, 11:53 PM
Keyser. Keyser. is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

Looks like a bluff that would only work against good, solid players who aren't always zeeboed.

This bluff is kinda cool in the fact that UTG's range is what you need to worry about (I think he can show up with 99 or 66 or something and call), but with button behind him (who has a looser range and probably doesn't have a pair) UTG can't call as often.

still I basically never do this. Fighting zeebo and bluffing into 2 players couldn't be +EV unless in a very good circumstance, and not sure this is quite it.

oh, and I think overbet shoving would be kinda cool here. Them having an 8 is so rare and I think shoving actually does realllly increase the amount of hands that fold to the point that it might almost be worth it to risk that much.
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  #26  
Old 09-20-2007, 12:02 AM
TripSearching TripSearching is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

OP ever heard of the zebo theorem?
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2007, 01:55 AM
yad yad is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

I think this sort of stuff is hardly necessary, but I kinda like it. How does PFR play? Will he check a flush draw on this flop 4-way, or is he one of those guys who sees a flush draw and automatically hits the button on the right? If the former, this gets better obviously. Even in the latter case he's often folding, so I think this is OK.
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  #28  
Old 09-20-2007, 02:04 AM
nuggetz87 nuggetz87 is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

i like to think i'm an above average hand reader and base a lot of my play off it (lol), but i think this is bad.

sure pretty much the only hand the tag is calling you with is 99. he might fold it too with someone behind it, but probably not.

problem is the other guy can show up with literally anything.
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2007, 02:09 AM
keikiwai keikiwai is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

ZEEBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOwned
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:08 AM
cs3 cs3 is offline
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Default Re: Never Give Up the bluff. Freedom!...and some hand reading.

i think UTG pretty clearly has 66/77/99 and if this river bluff works its only because UTG is not so good at hand reading and worried about BTN, who he thinks can show up with lots of random TX hands that beat him (even though as OP mentioned utg's range is vastly made up of draws)

fwiw hero's hand does look a lot like a weak T... 8Ts, 9Ts etc, so river isnt all that bad.
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