AQo deep flop good

[orange]

pin,
so you c/r flop and then c/r turn again? doesn't seem like a viable line.

[pineapple888]

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I think I would rather c/r with total air (ie. 22) or a very strong hand (ie. flush/set).

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Well, yeah. That's why it's a good play now. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I think we should decide whether our hand is a good enough to play 200bbs with...because I'm not sure if I do or not.

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Well, I could dream up lines where we fold with the right reads. If things get ugly, at some point you will just have to look into his soul.

[goofyballer]

BALANCE!!!!!!!!111

One of these days, I'm going to make a really long thread about balancing your game and people are finally going to know wtf I'm talking about in threads.

One of these days.

But to respond to that first point, I'm not turning AQ into a bluff at all; my point with the 22 is that it's a crappy play because there are tons of ways he can have a piece of that board and he's likely to call with a ton of them, so you're getting looked up light with a crappy hand in that spot. I feel like this is an example of Pokey's test about pessimistic thinking, where he posted an almost identical hand that included a river shove, except in one hand hero had the nuts and in the other he had air, and he asked "how often do you think I get called here?" in both posts. The response was that people thought the bluff was wayyyy more likely to get called than the flush, even though the situation was exactly the same. And here, I feel like because your hand is strong you feel like people are gonna fold more often to it, even though that's totally not true.

[pineapple888]

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pin,
so you c/r flop and then c/r turn again? doesn't seem like a viable line.

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Why not? It doesn't come up often but you are deep here.

[goofyballer]

lol, when I first opened this thread my initial thoughts were "c/r flop, c/shove turn if called, if turn checked through c/shove river." There was no reasoning behind it, I just thought it would be hot.

[pineapple888]

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lol, when I first opened this thread my initial thoughts were "c/r flop, c/shove turn if called, if turn checked through c/shove river." There was no reasoning behind it, I just thought it would be hot.

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I think the reason I like this line is that, holding the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], we know he can't have the nuts. (I'm assuming the board doesn't pair of course).

[orange]

goof,
I just feel that he needs a pretty strong hand to continue on this board and stacks. Unless there is some serious meta going on here (ie. he wants to shove turn with total air if I lead, etc) I'm still not sold on the c/r flop line.

There are definitely reasons why I do like c/r-ing- disguises my hand, allows me to gain value from lesser hands (JJ w. one spade,etc), METAGAME AND BALANCE, etc.

Let me ask you this- are you stacking off with this hand? You c/r flop, he calls, turn (2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) bricks and I bet, he shoves- I'm guessing you're calling?

[Jamougha]

I think the difficulty of the turn play after you cr is the main point against it. Also, goofy I think you are overestimating his calling range on the flop here.

[goofyballer]

You don't have to lead the turn. If I brick then I may go into check-call mode.

[Jamougha]

If we aren't leading then we could have bet flop/turn getting the same amount into the pot and his calling range would typically be wider at this point.

Also what do we do if we check and he bets. It doesn't seem like we are doing very well against his range. And there's a street to go.