Authors and Self-Publishing

[*TT*]

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Why don't you guys go over to a "How To Dominate" thread and ask Sam O'Conor about it? I believe he self-published.

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He is not self published.

Guys - I am a publisher. I publish magazines, not books, but I have a very good understanding of the book publishing biz because its very similar. I recently had a discussion with Tommy Angelo about his choice to self publish, like Tommy as long as you understand the risks and dont expect a huge reward its a viable solution if you want to keep your distribution controlled, perhaps limited to a handful of retail stores that you sell directly to as well as your own website/amazon. If you sell more than a few hundred copies of a poker book using this format your a rare survivor. After on-demand publishing costs your lucky if you make $5/book, sell 300 copies and profit 1.5k which in my mind is ridiculously low for the amount of work required to self publish. Tommy's decision goes beyond book sales measurements, I think he made the right choice but most people don't when they try this method.

The only time self publishing might be profitable is when the author orders a large quantity of books from the printer, stores them in a warehouse, and spends a year negotiating distribution deals with the major wholesale distributors. Then releases the book and invests marketing dollars for on-premise displays, PR push, etc etc etc. I don't know for sure but I think this was the route that Bary Greenstein took, only problem is he has admitted already the book hasn't turned a profit (which is probably fine for him, a tax writeoff might be as valuable as a small profit - they don't call it vanity publishing for nothing!)

I hope this explanation clears up some of the misunderstandings, I'll try to remember to check back on this thread soon.

[JackCase]

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Why don't you guys go over to a "How To Dominate" thread and ask Sam O'Conor about it? I believe he self-published.

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He is not self published.

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Depends on your definition of self-published. He is published by AuthorHouse, whose website says:

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AuthorHouse, the leading self-publishing company in the world, has helped more than 30,000 authors reach their book publishing goals and self publish more than 40,000 books.

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[Point Point]

I don't know anything about publishing but my advice to Tommy Angelo is that he release his book as an ebook. This way we won't have to wait for it in the mail if we buy it. I went to lulu and they give you 80% royalties for an ebook. That's a 16 dollar profit for a 20 buck book. Wow!

He could sell a fifth as much compared to getting published by a publisher and still make more. Just my 2 cents.

[*TT*]

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[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you guys go over to a "How To Dominate" thread and ask Sam O'Conor about it? I believe he self-published.

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He is not self published.

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Depends on your definition of self-published. He is published by AuthorHouse, whose website says:

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AuthorHouse, the leading self-publishing company in the world, has helped more than 30,000 authors reach their book publishing goals and self publish more than 40,000 books.

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Interesting. When i met him at the WSOP we talked about the problems he was having with his publisher, I assumed incorrectly apparently. I am very surprised he is taking the print on demand route, his results have been better than what i would expect. I'd estimate he has sold around 1,000 copies so far... it would be very interesting if Sam was willing to discuss this (I understand if he is not, this is privileged information).

Thanks!

[daveT]

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AuthorHouse, the leading self-publishing company in the world, has helped more than 30,000 authors reach their book publishing goals and self publish more than 40,000 books.

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So, you see, that the average self published author sells about 1.2 books. Good luck.

[Cactus Jack]

Very few books that were self-published have had great success. Writers call it "vanity press" for a very good reason.

The one I can think of that had enormous success was back in the 70s, Pulling Your Own Strings by Dr. Wayne Dyer. He drove around the country with boxes in the trunk of his car, trying to sell them to bookstores. He literally lifted his book onto the bestseller lists, and has gone on to a great career. He's by far the exception to the rule.

I'm hoping Tommy does well. It's going to be uphill. Niche books are pretty hard to sell to the mainstream book markets, even poker books.

[*TT*]

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I'm hoping Tommy does well. It's going to be uphill. Niche books are pretty hard to sell to the mainstream book markets, even poker books.

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Oddly, I am not so sure Tommy wants the book to do well if that makes any sense. His goals are much higher than the book alone, he is focused on the bigger picture. For him control of content is more important than sales, thats why he is an ideal candidate for custom publishing. I don't think he intends to sell much more than a few hundred books at most while he is going the custom route, but with that said I really admire his vision!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi TT:

I think the right way to look at this is that it's very difficult to be successful when you self-publish. However, Two Plus Two did begin as a self-publishing operation.

Very quickly, what happened was that the publisher I had did not publish my book and after two years of waiting, in 1987 I hired an attorney who was able to get the book back for me. (This publisher went bankrupt and they would have never put the book out.) At this time, I now had three books written and went the self-publishing route.

Ironically, for reasons that would take too long to go through here except to say that the market has changed dramatically in twenty years, I don't believe that what I was able to do in the late 1980s and early 1990s could be done today. So I and Two Plus Two should be listed under the lucky category.

Best wishes,
Mason

[*TT*]

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Hi TT:

I think the right way to look at this is that it's very difficult to be successful when you self-publish. However, Two Plus Two did begin as a self-publishing operation.

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Hi Mason:

From my understanding on demand publishing was not available at the time when you chose to go the self publishing route, you probably had to put a significant investment in a book order, probably more than you could possibly sell in a 1 year period (am I right?). Did this investment encourage you to start 2+2 as a publishing company beyond your own self published books? At what point in 2+2's history did you look in the mirror and say to yourself "wow.... I can't belive I pulled this off!"?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi TT:

In the beginning (1987), the books were just "xeroxed." So in a sense that was like in demand publishing since only a very small number at a time were produced. It wasn't until the next year that I went to a printer (through a local print shop here in town that is now out of business) for print runs of 1,000 copies per book.

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At what point in 2+2's history did you look in the mirror and say to yourself "wow.... I can't belive I pulled this off!"?

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This didn't really happen until after the great poker boom started in 2003. But we have certainly spent a lot of time the last couple of years discussing how we became so successful, and still don't completely understand it all today.

Best wishes,
Mason