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#21
09-12-2007, 07:06 PM
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Re: WSOPE Hand vs Townsend
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone who's saying Shove pf Aba plays so well postflop. Obv Aba is very very good but I mean if you call pf the pot is like 10k and we have 15k behind... he can't really outplay us that much unless your completely awful postflop. [/ QUOTE ] Seriously? You don't have to be Brian Townsend to win with AQ on a majority of flops. 
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#24
09-12-2007, 07:54 PM
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Re: WSOPE Hand vs Townsend
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone who's saying Shove pf Aba plays so well postflop. Obv Aba is very very good but I mean if you call pf the pot is like 10k and we have 15k behind... he can't really outplay us that much unless your completely awful postflop. FWIW I still prob 4bet but instead of shoving I'd make it like 10k to go. [/ QUOTE ] Let's say he bets 5k on every flop. We're gonna end up folding 2/3 of the time. Our equity is a lot higher if we just take it down preflop.
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#25
09-12-2007, 07:56 PM
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Re: WSOPE Hand vs Townsend
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Everyone who's saying Shove pf Aba plays so well postflop. Obv Aba is very very good but I mean if you call pf the pot is like 10k and we have 15k behind... he can't really outplay us that much unless your completely awful postflop. FWIW I still prob 4bet but instead of shoving I'd make it like 10k to go. [/ QUOTE ] Let's say he bets 5k on every flop. We're gonna end up folding 2/3 of the time. Our equity is a lot higher if we just take it down preflop. [/ QUOTE ] What if you flat call and raise allin if you miss the flop?
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#26
09-12-2007, 09:38 PM
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Re: WSOPE Hand vs Townsend
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Everyone who's saying Shove pf Aba plays so well postflop. Obv Aba is very very good but I mean if you call pf the pot is like 10k and we have 15k behind... he can't really outplay us that much unless your completely awful postflop. FWIW I still prob 4bet but instead of shoving I'd make it like 10k to go. [/ QUOTE ] Let's say he bets 5k on every flop. We're gonna end up folding 2/3 of the time. Our equity is a lot higher if we just take it down preflop. [/ QUOTE ] ZJ, FWIW I agree 4bet pf is def the best line. All I was saying was that it doesn't really matter how your post flop skills are compared to villains post flop skill when your stacks are slightly more than pot.
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#27
09-13-2007, 03:51 AM
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Re: WSOPE Hand vs Townsend
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Everyone who's saying Shove pf Aba plays so well postflop. Obv Aba is very very good but I mean if you call pf the pot is like 10k and we have 15k behind... he can't really outplay us that much unless your completely awful postflop. FWIW I still prob 4bet but instead of shoving I'd make it like 10k to go. [/ QUOTE ] Let's say he bets 5k on every flop. We're gonna end up folding 2/3 of the time. Our equity is a lot higher if we just take it down preflop. [/ QUOTE ] ZJ, FWIW I agree 4bet pf is def the best line. All I was saying was that it doesn't really matter how your post flop skills are compared to villains post flop skill when your stacks are slightly more than pot. [/ QUOTE ] I should also mention that it is much more important for AK to see the turn and river than JJ. Sklansky wrote a nice chapter on this in TPFAP. The fact that we are up against a good player is far from the only reason that we are likely to get outplayed postflop if we just call.
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#28
09-13-2007, 05:09 AM
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Re: WSOPE Hand vs Townsend
After he raises you there is 5900 already in the pot. We want it. You want AK to see five cards as Justin has said above. We assume the villain has a range in this spot much, much wider than QQ+. He's also pretty good at poker, so if we 4 - bet to 10 or 12k he will simply realise that we are pot committed; hence meaning that it will not affect what he does with his holding. I assume no - one wants to fold, right?
So this is surely a very straightforward shove?
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