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#21
09-12-2007, 10:30 AM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I am glad that I actually commented on this thread. To me this is a marginal EV spot, but it appears that my thinking may be incorrect [/ QUOTE ] OP said he hasn't played a 3bet pot with villian yet. This is a great spot to start it up as he is likely to get way more credit for a big hand than he deserves (the earlier in the session the better). FWIW, early in the session I might 3-bet here with any two suited broadway just to test my opponent. You are correct. We'd really like to see his ATS% to make a solid decision. I've seen loose-passive fish that never raise have ATS of 30+ (usually a min-raise). I, however, want to create my LAG image early and often and continue to put pressure on my opponents. AQ is a great hand for that. He for sure is calling me with 22+, AK, probably AQ and AJs, KQs in position and still folding a lot of that to my c-bet. [ QUOTE ] which is most likely driven by my underestimation of the fold equity that we really have here. [/ QUOTE ] Our fold equity + hand range doesn't necessarily have to be +EV for this specific hand to make this +EV overall. Most opps don't enjoy being 3-bet, and after you do it a few times, they will loosen up which can be +EV for you later. Even better is when they loosen up OOP, tired of you raising all the hands they like to limp. [ QUOTE ] In order to help with this though, I would like to pose a couple of questions: 1. Are we safe in arbitrarily assigning positional awareness to a 10NL villain? [/ QUOTE ] Does it really matter in this case? If he isn't positionally aware then he is raising all of his range from anywhere (which we've already established his range, most of which we can either make him fold pre-flop, or on the flop). If he is positionally aware, then that just increases our FE on the flop (and our chance of taking it away pre-flop). But again, I'm not raising here solely on the value of my hand (which is, mind you, quite valuable). I'm raising for my image. I'm raising to tell him, do not raise my blinds loosely. I'm raising to tell him, I own this table. I'm raising to let the other players know, I own this table. I'm raising to let him know, I'm capable of re-raising and putting pressure on him. I'm raising to find out how he reacts to a 3-bet. I want to know more about my opponent than he is 18/10. I want to know how he handles pressure. [ QUOTE ] If we are able to look at his Att. to steal and see that it shows him as positionaly aware (i.e., it is high), then I would be more comfortable with opening up his hand range. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think you need to see a stat to test an opponent. You can (and should) test your opponents early and often and begin to develop reads immediately. I'm very aggressive, however, so take that FWIW. [ QUOTE ] seems logical to me that a tight villain is less likely to make a steal in this position than a loose villain. [/ QUOTE ] Even tight villians can recognize the value of late position raising. I've see 6/6 villians with ATS of 40+. [ QUOTE ] 2. Are we safe in using villains preflop stats to assume postflop ability? Granted this is 10NL, so he is probably fairly weak post flop, but is it correct to use the fact that he is 18/10 preflop as justification for this read? [/ QUOTE ] We have to discern what we can as early as possible and adjust as we learn more. This is one key component to winning, IMO. I have to take what information I have (even if it is limited) and use it until proven otherwise. So in my mind, 18/10 tells me a couple things. Either my opponent calls raises too often, or limps too often. Either one is a sign of a weaker poker player. I've already established a range for his 10% raises, which leaves things like Axs and suited connectors for the additional 8%. This tells me he isn't comfortable raising with 78s and playing it postflop. Now by taking my limited information I can create a plan about how I want to play this player. I know what hands I will 3-bet with, I know how I will take away his pots when he raises and I call in position. That being said, I have more stats up than just pre-flop call/raise amounts. The additional stats I use help build me pictures (stereotypes) that I use to help me adjust as early as possible to my opponents. So while yes, I believe you can discern some information from just those two stats, it's really an incomplete picture without filling in with other stats. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 3. Is there any board that we would not c-bet on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] For me, no. I'm firing about 1/2-2/3 on the flop regardless of what comes. I'm putting maximum pressure on my opponent. I will observe how quickly he folds/calls and take some notes. [ QUOTE ] Are we folding to any type of pressure on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] If I hit my A or Q I will stack off with my opponent, take notes, and adjust accordingly. If I miss and he calls, I'm done with the hand. 
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#22
09-12-2007, 11:03 AM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
[ QUOTE ]
This is the most standard 3-bet ever. Student Caine is the type of player who I love having on my left. That's a lot of free money. [/ QUOTE ] This seems unnecessary.
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#23
09-12-2007, 01:40 PM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is the most standard 3-bet ever. Student Caine is the type of player who I love having on my left. That's a lot of free money. [/ QUOTE ] This seems unnecessary. [/ QUOTE ] Okay thanks for the observation, prude. Student Caine and I are just messing with each other. Unbunch your panties please.
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#24
09-12-2007, 02:53 PM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is the most standard 3-bet ever. Student Caine is the type of player who I love having on my left. That's a lot of free money. [/ QUOTE ] Okay thanks for the observation, prude. Student Caine and I are just messing with each other. Unbunch your panties please. [/ QUOTE ] This seems unnecessary, too.
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#25
09-12-2007, 03:42 PM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is the most standard 3-bet ever. Student Caine is the type of player who I love having on my left. That's a lot of free money. [/ QUOTE ] Okay thanks for the observation, prude. Student Caine and I are just messing with each other. Unbunch your panties please. [/ QUOTE ] This seems unnecessary, too. [/ QUOTE ] Your existence, especially in this thread, is unnecessary.
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#26
09-12-2007, 03:51 PM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
all the thinking in the thread is pretty sound Im not sure how much "testing" you have to do at 10NL if I find I have to 3 bet much to take advantage of nitty players I usually find a better table.
That being said this is a pretty standard 3 bet then fire the flop spot here I give villan most if not all PPs and AQ+ as a range here.
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#27
09-12-2007, 04:00 PM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
Awesome.
Thanks a lot cubase, this really helps me out with the thought process of this hand and what we are really trying to accomplish (gathering of information and establishing an image rather than playing a ++EV situation).
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#28
09-12-2007, 04:02 PM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
[ QUOTE ]
is this the part where you play hu for rolls? [/ QUOTE ] WTF @ HU? He won't even play against me at a 6-Max table. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] And I think on the internet it would be "HeDDz up 4 r0ll$". [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#29
09-12-2007, 09:12 PM
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Re: NL10-AQs squeeze and flop play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] is this the part where you play hu for rolls? [/ QUOTE ] WTF @ HU? He won't even play against me at a 6-Max table. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] And I think on the internet it would be "HeDDz up 4 r0ll$". [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Well now you know about 3-betting, so my advantage is null. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I missed my opportunity.
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