200NL- T9s gets shoved on for 200bbs on 929 flop

[Imrahil]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you just blindly raise this on the flop? If you aren't willing to felt this on the flop then don't raise. I really don't like felting this hand because I am outkicked or boated when it happens. Therefore, with deeper stacks I would just call the flop. It looks like a PP if you flat call and you've disguised your hand. By raising you will only get action from hands that beat KK/AA (which means that T9 is no good most of the time).

It seems weak to call because we want to make flush draws pay, but how often is this guy leading a flush draw into 2 players on this flop in a raised pot? More often than not it is a PP or TT/JJ which are drawing very thin.

If we were shorter than obviously we want to get it AI.

As played, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Donk bettor is a TAG and I tryed a big bluff against him which failed so he viewed me as aggro.

Oh wait, maybe villain thinks I'm crazy. Not sure if he noticed the hand.

[TwistedEcho]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you just blindly raise this on the flop? If you aren't willing to felt this on the flop then don't raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

GREAT POINT!!1!!!!

Maybe he's willing to felt vs the donkbettor and didn't expect the SB to checkraise shove for 2 buyins?

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

Fold because the third guy came over the top. This really skews his range away from flush draws, and more towards 22.

As an aside, what is the information on BB?

[Imrahil]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold because the third guy came over the top. This really skews his range away from flush draws, and more towards 22.

As an aside, what is the information on BB?

[/ QUOTE ]


BBs something like 22/16/3. Earlier this happened between us:

POKERSTARS GAME #11884999912: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/09/05 - 11:01:58 (ET)
Table 'Segin IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Snazk ($523.95 in chips)
Seat 2: heybude ($200 in chips)
Seat 3: hot_skillets ($196.60 in chips)
Seat 4: PrnceImrahil ($223 in chips)
Seat 5: titohsg ($238.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Brutefamine ($256.05 in chips)
Brutefamine: posts small blind $1
Snazk: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PrnceImrahil [9c 8c]
heybude: raises $6 to $8
hot_skillets: folds
PrnceImrahil: calls $8
titohsg: folds
Brutefamine: folds
Snazk: folds
*** FLOP *** [2s Qd Js]
heybude: checks
PrnceImrahil: checks
*** TURN *** [2s Qd Js] [8s]
heybude: bets $14
PrnceImrahil: raises $36 to $50
heybude: calls $36
*** RIVER *** [2s Qd Js 8s] [2c]
heybude: checks
PrnceImrahil: bets $80
heybude: calls $80
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PrnceImrahil: shows [9c 8c] (two pair, Eights and Deuces)
heybude: shows [Kc Qs] (two pair, Queens and Deuces)
heybude collected $276 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $279 | Rake $3
Board [2s Qd Js 8s 2c]
Seat 1: Snazk (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: heybude showed [Kc Qs] and won ($276) with two pair, Queens and Deuces
Seat 3: hot_skillets folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: PrnceImrahil showed [9c 8c] and lost with two pair, Eights and Deuces
Seat 5: titohsg (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Brutefamine (small blind) folded before Flop

[Imrahil]

Also, why would 22 make such a big raise? He's not scared of the FD so why play it so crazy?

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

There are a couple problems with some arguments for calling. Villain might think you are lashing out at BB from that previous hand, but how would you know if he was or wasn't? There is no way of telling if he even saw that hand in question.

In regards to him possibly having 22, his options are cold call or shove. I belive that an NL200 regular would want to shove here to rep a flush draw, but I bet they aren't actually shoving a flush draw effectively for 200bb. Think about it. Let's say you have AA. You're shutting down if he calls. The only way you can make a hero call is if you put him on a flush draw and call, which cold calling doens't really represent. If you have a nine, villain may well assume that we are gonna get it in anyway, so shoving doens't make you fold anything.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, why would 22 make such a big raise? He's not scared of the FD so why play it so crazy?

[/ QUOTE ]

1.) ZOMG I have a boat
2.) ZOMG I have a boat but it's bottom boat so I have to charge any 9 cause that other dude sucked out on me the last time I had bottom boat
3.) ZOMG I'm gonna make it look like a draw so that aggro manaic will call

This spot is really highly read-dependent. Just gotta go with your gut instinct I think. Other stats would help also. But default is to sigh and fold, and gg him if you were ahead.

[schwein285]

[ QUOTE ]
You beat nothing, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it a possibility that villan could have something like 1010-AA? And if he did would he take this line on the flop? (I dont think so). Also ask yourself if villan is capable of making this play with a flush draw. If the answer is no to both of these questions then i think u should fold here.

Speaking of him having a 9. Would he call ur raise preflop with hands like Q9,A9,K9,J9? If yes then i would probably fold this. But if the only hands that he can have that include a 9 here are suited connectors(excluding J9 and Q9) then i think you should call here. Also it would not suprise me if villan had a full house here.

And for the record, its extremely unlikely that villan has something like a two pair hand that doesnt include an over pair.(ex 88 or 77)

[Imrahil]

Villain's not a reg.

[dragonystic]

easy fold.