$235 6 Man: TPTK Facing Turn Min Raise

[JSH06]

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You probably wouldn't be advocating the preflop re-raise so much if I missed the flop. The thing with re-raising AK preflop is it's hard to stack someone when you hit. Hands like QQ & JJ don't like to see a king or an ace. It also sucks really hard when you miss and have a bloated pot, especially OOP.

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You give a valid negative reason for not re-raising AK OOP but there are also postives to doing it:

- Some % of time you take down a nice pot preflop and avoid having to play a hand OOP that misses most flops
- You narrow villains range if he calls or shoves making your postflop decision a little easier

Positive reasons for calling a raise with AK and position:

- You often make an extra bet when you hit because villain will usually c-bet
- If villain checks flop you can often steal even if you miss


If you have a good read that villain is only opening with premium hands then re-raising sucks. Otherwise, I think it's a good option for playing AK OOP.



(I guess I have to add the standard disclaimer that I don't play these levels so maybe I'm full of [censored]. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img])

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Yeah but I'd much rather be playing big pots in position than OOP, which is why I re-raise with it pretty much 100% of the time in position, as opposed to 50% or so OOP.

[suzzer99]

JSH, when you reraise AK, what do you reraise to? And what do you do if a) an unknown, b) the rotter, c) Comma_D comes over the top?

[suzzer99]

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You probably wouldn't be advocating the preflop re-raise so much if I missed the flop. The thing with re-raising AK preflop is it's hard to stack someone when you hit. Hands like QQ & JJ don't like to see a king or an ace. It also sucks really hard when you miss and have a bloated pot, especially OOP.

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You give a valid negative reason for not re-raising AK OOP but there are also postives to doing it:

- Some % of time you take down a nice pot preflop and avoid having to play a hand OOP that misses most flops
- You narrow villains range if he calls or shoves making your postflop decision a little easier

Positive reasons for calling a raise with AK and position:

- You often make an extra bet when you hit because villain will usually c-bet
- If villain checks flop you can often steal even if you miss


If you have a good read that villain is only opening with premium hands then re-raising sucks. Otherwise, I think it's a good option for playing AK OOP.



(I guess I have to add the standard disclaimer that I don't play these levels so maybe I'm full of [censored]. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img])

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Yeah but I'd much rather be playing big pots in position than OOP, which is why I re-raise with it pretty much 100% of the time in position, as opposed to 50% or so OOP.

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The thing is with AK it very often plays itself post flop in a HU pot, especially against an unknown, and especially if you just call one raise preflop. I guess I don't see position being as important with this hand as it normally is.

I haven't played that many of the 6x$235s. But if it's anything like the $225s, I give an unknown pretty much the exact same credit as a $114/$119. At least on the weekends.

[Jbrochu]

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Reraising AK is just nasty if they come over the top. You're pretty much just getting exact odds to call against an unknown, but you aren't thrilled about it.

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Yeah you probably have to call a 3-bet shove against an unknown getting something close to 1.4-to-1. I don't mind that so much at the levels I play since crap like AQ and AJ are sometimes in their range. I guess that's not often the case at this level.

[JSH06]

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JSH, when you reraise AK, what do you reraise to? And what do you do if a) an unknown, b) the rotter, c) Comma_D comes over the top?

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I would generally re-raise to 240 here (3x)

a) If an unknown comes over the top I might just use my timebank and sharkscope them. If they've lost a lot I call. Otherwise I probably fold.
b) The who?
c) I fold in a heart beat. Comma is probably on something like QQ+,AK or KK+, AK most of the time here. Even if he's on JJ+,AK, I still don't have the odds to call

This is another reason why re-raising can get ugly. You usually have to fold to a shove and then you just spewed 240 chips. I mean, if you make it 240 and he shoves you're getting a little less than 1.4:1 You really only have odds if AQ is in his range or he's shoving a lot of pairs. I just don't think that's the case against an unknown at the $235s. I would want some bad sharkscope stats or poker ace hud stats before I made that assumption.

Also, the $235s are generally tougher than the $119s. There's often a lot of the same players playing them, but there's also plenty of solid players who only play $235s & higher. These are often solid 9 man players. Sometimes the $235s are just as soft, but overall they aren't.

[Shillx]

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I don't mind calling preflop, but if you do I hate leading the flop. Either c/r call a shove or c/c the flop.

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Yup and probably check/raise with the ten out there (as much I as wanna check/call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). The turn seem pretty simple given that you did lead the flop. I wouldn't bet any hand that I'm not looking to get AI with (unless I'm straight bluffing). So if it goes bet/raise/[censored] then you should try for a check/push instead. But you also have to understand that you will run into the same problems when you check the turn only now the pot is bigger and a free card is more costly.

Moreover, you can't guarantee a hand like KQ or KJ is going to c-bet, especially with the ace and ten as likely cards to have hit his opponent. These hands will sometimes bluff-raise a flop lead though because they'll think you're full of it and would never lead an ace.

C'mon man you are trying way too hard now.

[Pudge714]

Three bet folding preflop is sososososososososososo bad unless you are folding to CommaD's cold 4bet.

JSH,
I think you need to check the flop as any ace bets, but you can induce by checking. If you are worried about him betting the flop and checking back the turn. You can c/r the flop so you gain the impetus or you c/c lead turn.

[JSH06]

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I don't mind calling preflop, but if you do I hate leading the flop. Either c/r call a shove or c/c the flop.

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Yup and probably check/raise with the ten out there (as much I as wanna check/call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). The turn seem pretty simple given that you did lead the flop. I wouldn't bet any hand that I'm not looking to get AI with (unless I'm straight bluffing). So if it goes bet/raise/[censored] then you should try for a check/push instead. But you also have to understand that you will run into the same problems when you check the turn only now the pot is bigger and a free card is more costly.

Moreover, you can't guarantee a hand like KQ or KJ is going to c-bet, especially with the ace and ten as likely cards to have hit his opponent. These hands will sometimes bluff-raise a flop lead though because they'll think you're full of it and would never lead an ace.

C'mon man you are trying way too hard now.

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You don't play 6 mans. The players are a lot more aggro. Also, tell me I'm wrong that you don't really lose value by betting the flop. Give me a logical explanation of why it's wrong. Put him on a hand range and show how it's bad against that hand range.