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#21
08-29-2007, 05:28 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
Sports forum thread It turns out the fat guy has terminal cancer. He is participating in "Make-a-Wish" and his wish was to participate in a MMA fight. [/ QUOTE ] Lol, did you actually click that link? 
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#22
08-29-2007, 05:35 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] My question: Is the trained fighter doing anything immoral by participating in this fight and destroying the fat kid? [/ QUOTE ] Ofcourse. Anyone recognizes in a second that this kid has serious mental problems. And what does the other guy do? He let's all his rage and anger loose on the kid. So this means that the stronger guy also has severe mental problems. If I had to guess I'd say the stronger guy was physically abused as a child. [/ QUOTE ] I don't agree with any of those assessments. There's money involved. Even the most normal of people will do all kinds of crazy [censored] if the money is right. [/ QUOTE ] Mental problems and abuse are common, I agree. That doesn't make it right. [/ QUOTE ] Every single person involved benefits. No one loses. That makes it right. And I was also disagreeing with you on your assumption that these guys are disturbed and/or suffered abuse. Like I said, normal people would do this stuff for money as well. [/ QUOTE ] This was an amateur fight, ie no money was involved. The kid had probably been picked on his whole life and thought he could prove something by fighting. [/ QUOTE ] He could have "tapped out" or something to that effect if he had wanted to or deemed it necessary, right? Is there a coach involved that is supposed to throw in the towel? I assume at least one of those is the case. Let the fat kid do what he wants.
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#23
08-29-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
He could have "tapped out" or something to that effect if he had wanted to or deemed it necessary, right? Is there a coach involved that is supposed to throw in the towel? I assume at least one of those is the case. Let the fat kid do what he wants. [/ QUOTE ] The kid is going on a path of self-destruction, which is the result of a horrible horrible childhood. He is going in there to BE hurt. It is pure self-loathing and hatred of everything. Bring this kid some joy and help him through his pains, not endure them by making sure he goes deeper into the hole.
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#24
08-29-2007, 05:57 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He could have "tapped out" or something to that effect if he had wanted to or deemed it necessary, right? Is there a coach involved that is supposed to throw in the towel? I assume at least one of those is the case. Let the fat kid do what he wants. [/ QUOTE ] The kid is going on a path of self-destruction, which is the result of a horrible horrible childhood. He is going in there to BE hurt. It is pure self-loathing and hatred of everything. Bring this kid some joy and help him through his pains, not endure them by making sure he goes deeper into the hole. [/ QUOTE ] I guess this depends on the details that we don't know. How do you know that our very own Durrrr didn't offer him $10,000 if he could last 2 minutes? I'm not saying there were no bad decisions made. I'm just saying there is nothing inherently wrong with someone getting beaten up with consent for entertainment and/or money as long as no coercion is involved.
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#25
08-29-2007, 06:06 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just saying there is nothing inherently wrong with someone getting beaten up with consent for entertainment and/or money as long as no coercion is involved. [/ QUOTE ] That's a pretty bold statement. What about bumfights? Edit: I'm just trying to make the point that there is a lot of room for exploitation.
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#26
08-29-2007, 06:10 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] He could have "tapped out" or something to that effect if he had wanted to or deemed it necessary, right? Is there a coach involved that is supposed to throw in the towel? I assume at least one of those is the case. Let the fat kid do what he wants. [/ QUOTE ] The kid is going on a path of self-destruction, which is the result of a horrible horrible childhood. He is going in there to BE hurt. It is pure self-loathing and hatred of everything. Bring this kid some joy and help him through his pains, not endure them by making sure he goes deeper into the hole. [/ QUOTE ] I guess this depends on the details that we don't know. How do you know that our very own Durrrr didn't offer him $10,000 if he could last 2 minutes? I'm not saying there were no bad decisions made. I'm just saying there is nothing inherently wrong with someone getting beaten up with consent for entertainment and/or money as long as no coercion is involved. [/ QUOTE ] 1. It seems you are an anarcho-capitalist then? 2. Trading $10K for serious physical pain and emotional abuse and humiliation eq mental issues. The same thing holds true for prostitution. It's not immoral per se from a blank perspective. However, the situation is totally [censored] up because the girls are re-enacting child abuse and the guys are totally [censored] up for using services from people who are like that, and not recognized it for what it is. All you really have to do is put yourself in their shoes. If you would not do it ask yourself why.
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#27
08-29-2007, 06:10 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm just saying there is nothing inherently wrong with someone getting beaten up with consent for entertainment and/or money as long as no coercion is involved. [/ QUOTE ] That's a pretty bold statement. What about bumfights? [/ QUOTE ] Usually with bum fights, coercion is involved. Many are mentally unstable, or suffer from substance abuse. And often, the bums just don't get paid as promised. If somehow you could be sure that the bums are able to make informed decisions without duress, and could somehow be sure they would get paid as promised, then I would have no promise with the bum fight. I reserve the right to rethink this position based on other factors I might not currently be considering, but there's nothing INHERENTLY wrong with the idea.
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#28
08-29-2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
I reserve the right to rethink this position based on other factors I might not currently be considering, but there's nothing INHERENTLY wrong with the idea. [/ QUOTE ] I agree it's not cut and dry. One thing, and this is more personal opinion than anything moralistic, but I don't think people should get beat up for entertainment or money in any case. I like MMA, but I view it as a sport. There was no sport in the initial video in question.
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#29
08-29-2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He could have "tapped out" or something to that effect if he had wanted to or deemed it necessary, right? Is there a coach involved that is supposed to throw in the towel? I assume at least one of those is the case. Let the fat kid do what he wants. [/ QUOTE ] The kid is going on a path of self-destruction, which is the result of a horrible horrible childhood. He is going in there to BE hurt. It is pure self-loathing and hatred of everything. Bring this kid some joy and help him through his pains, not endure them by making sure he goes deeper into the hole. [/ QUOTE ] The 19 year old guy should be denied his request to fight in an MMA fight because he surely is going to lose?
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#30
08-29-2007, 06:19 PM
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Re: Voluntaryism (Fight video included)
[ QUOTE ]
1. It seems you are an anarcho-capitalist then? [/ QUOTE ] Not even close. Minimum wages, consumer protection, and all that jazz are absolutely necessary. [ QUOTE ] 2. Trading $10K for serious physical pain and emotional abuse and humiliation eq mental issues. [/ QUOTE ] It's just paying for entertainment. People make crazy prop bets all the time. Do you think it's immoral to offer a buddy $20 to drink 3 ounces of hot sauce? [ QUOTE ] The same thing holds true for prostitution. [/ QUOTE ] They make so much money. I don't know any prostitutes personally, but the strippers I know are extremely happy with their lifestyle and choice of profession. Good for them. If it were the case that all strippers were suicidal and in constant misery, I wouldn't support its legality, but that doesn't seem to be anywhere close to the case. [ QUOTE ] All you really have to do is put yourself in their shoes. If you would not do it ask yourself why. [/ QUOTE ] If I was a chick, and was not smart enough or qualified to do anything "special", I would at least consider becoming a stripper.
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