RFID ( Radio Frequency ID ) chips, George Orwell's Prophecy

[ThaSaltCracka]

you serious? So basically since everything is [censored] up already we should just accept this RFID?

[Subfallen]

You think you have a CHOICE to accept it? If they decide to go with it, um, no, you will not have a choice. Again, Big Brother is 100% here. All power is in the hands of the very, very few.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I don't see why we should be so complacent.

[Subfallen]

Maybe we shouldn't be. But it doesn't help to point at RFID implants (or anything else) as a watershed event where some hidden NWO power will finally reveal its malevolent agenda and life will become unlivable. If something extreme would need to be done then, something extreme needs to be done just as much now.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
This is so weird to me. What exactly would having an RFID implant keep you from doing that you do now? Besides enjoying the excitement of losing your ID's, the delay of manually processing credit transactions, and the privilege of deluding yourself that you have any real privacy or power to keep the government from doing whatever the bloody hell it wants?

Goodness people, BIG BROTHER IS ALREADY HERE. If Big Brother is unacceptable, then please start a revolution and quit whining about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is false, at the present time it is fairly easy to keep under the radar if you want to. In fact its really easy to manipulate the system to show only what you want it to show on paper. In the future if there is no outcry, you wont be able to manipulate the system anymore. And as far as the RFID goes, I cant wait to make a couple million dollars selling point of sale systems to places like Walmart and target so they can market directly to the consumer. Walk into a target with a federal issued rfid tag...I can passively read it, and log exactly where you are in the store, how long you are in a particular isle, what your name, social, and address is, and with sercurity at places like this so lax, things are ripe for abuse. another scenerio that would be very easy to implement: federally put in place rfid readers on every street corner, or store window, tracking your movements throughout the city, maybe the stores track that you passed their storefront, look up your number in a data base, and text you with a special deal they have etc etc. You are weak minded sheep if you dont see this how negatively this will affect people


once the FEDERAL government starts streamlining their databases, and how they can access that information, with a physical device that is probably going to be on 99% of people at all times, than we are pretty screwed.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
This is false, at the present time it is fairly easy to keep under the radar if you want to. In fact its really easy to manipulate the system to show only what you want it to show on paper. In the future if there is no outcry, you wont be able to manipulate the system anymore. And as far as the RFID goes, I cant wait to make a couple million dollars selling point of sale systems to places like Walmart and target so they can market directly to the consumer. Walk into a target with a federal issued rfid tag...I can passively read it, and log exactly where you are in the store, how long you are in a particular isle, what your name, social, and address is, and with sercurity at places like this so lax, things are ripe for abuse. another scenerio that would be very easy to implement: federally put in place rfid readers on every street corner, or store window, tracking your movements throughout the city, maybe the stores track that you passed their storefront, look up your number in a data base, and text you with a special deal they have etc etc. You are weak minded sheep if you dont see this how negatively this will affect people once the FEDERAL government starts streamlining their databases, and how they can access that information, with a physical device that is probably going to be on 99% of people at all times, than we are pretty screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well maybe I am weak-minded, but I still don't see how any of this is a qualitative change from my current life. Sure, the quantity of information I give up will increase, but it seems that would only make life more convenient. How exactly will I be more screwed then than I am now?

I mean, AFAIK I don't break any laws. What will change? Bush will demand everyone convert to fundamentalist Christianity and tithe 30% to the state Church? Honestly I'm very curious to hear what scenario you envision where we will become qualitatively more screwed than at present.

I don't really even see how it would be possible to be qualitatively more screwed. This country is already a fascist state and I have exactly 0.00% influence on all government policy and procedure.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is false, at the present time it is fairly easy to keep under the radar if you want to. In fact its really easy to manipulate the system to show only what you want it to show on paper. In the future if there is no outcry, you wont be able to manipulate the system anymore. And as far as the RFID goes, I cant wait to make a couple million dollars selling point of sale systems to places like Walmart and target so they can market directly to the consumer. Walk into a target with a federal issued rfid tag...I can passively read it, and log exactly where you are in the store, how long you are in a particular isle, what your name, social, and address is, and with sercurity at places like this so lax, things are ripe for abuse. another scenerio that would be very easy to implement: federally put in place rfid readers on every street corner, or store window, tracking your movements throughout the city, maybe the stores track that you passed their storefront, look up your number in a data base, and text you with a special deal they have etc etc. You are weak minded sheep if you dont see this how negatively this will affect people once the FEDERAL government starts streamlining their databases, and how they can access that information, with a physical device that is probably going to be on 99% of people at all times, than we are pretty screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well maybe I am weak-minded, but I still don't see how any of this is a qualitative change from my current life. Sure, the quantity of information I give up will increase, but it seems that would only make life more convenient. How exactly will I be more screwed then than I am now?

I mean, AFAIK I don't break any laws. What will change? Bush will demand everyone convert to fundamentalist Christianity and tithe 30% to the state Church? Honestly I'm very curious to hear what scenario you envision where we will become qualitatively more screwed than at present.

[/ QUOTE ]


Its thinking that "I wont be much worse off it goes into effect" that I think the powers that be are planning on. Think about it, the simplest way to keep people in line is to appeal to their apathy. Thinking that "I dont do anything wrong" is stupid. It is a lot easier to move a mountain by chipping a way at it slowly, than to try and move the whole thing at once. I dont see how anyone can dispute the fact that all this power can and will eventually be abused, how I dont know, there are probably a million scenarios, but I dont want to find ever find out.

It also never ceases to amaze me that the same people who have such a distaste for Bush, and washington in general are usually the first to bend over and take it in the ass in this regard.

[Subfallen]

Oh, I agree that widespread apathy is responsible for our current condition. But I really, honestly, do not see why I would be any worse off in a country completely RFID'ed. Apprehension of criminals would obviously approach a 100% success rate, so that seems like a plus. And I assume it will eventually be possible to monitor blood chemistry with these things, so the drug war would be auto-won, saving us $70BN a year. Not to mention the enormous conveniences of eliminating paper money, credit cards, and all forms of ID. And these results would all come from fairly mature technologies. Who knows what be possible within a few decades.

So clearly you must be thinking of a specific downside that would outweigh all those benefits, and outweigh them handily. But I don't know what it is, and am fascinated that it's so opaque to me. Please elaborate!

[Thug Bubbles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is false, at the present time it is fairly easy to keep under the radar if you want to. In fact its really easy to manipulate the system to show only what you want it to show on paper. In the future if there is no outcry, you wont be able to manipulate the system anymore. And as far as the RFID goes, I cant wait to make a couple million dollars selling point of sale systems to places like Walmart and target so they can market directly to the consumer. Walk into a target with a federal issued rfid tag...I can passively read it, and log exactly where you are in the store, how long you are in a particular isle, what your name, social, and address is, and with sercurity at places like this so lax, things are ripe for abuse. another scenerio that would be very easy to implement: federally put in place rfid readers on every street corner, or store window, tracking your movements throughout the city, maybe the stores track that you passed their storefront, look up your number in a data base, and text you with a special deal they have etc etc. You are weak minded sheep if you dont see this how negatively this will affect people once the FEDERAL government starts streamlining their databases, and how they can access that information, with a physical device that is probably going to be on 99% of people at all times, than we are pretty screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well maybe I am weak-minded, but I still don't see how any of this is a qualitative change from my current life. Sure, the quantity of information I give up will increase, but it seems that would only make life more convenient. How exactly will I be more screwed then than I am now?

I mean, AFAIK I don't break any laws. What will change? Bush will demand everyone convert to fundamentalist Christianity and tithe 30% to the state Church? Honestly I'm very curious to hear what scenario you envision where we will become qualitatively more screwed than at present.

I don't really even see how it would be possible to be qualitatively more screwed. This country is already a fascist state and I have exactly 0.00% influence on all government policy and procedure.

[/ QUOTE ]

guids touched on this but I'd like to re-iterate. This bolded section is exactly how 'they' can get away with stripping the Oak of liberty and freedom down to a splinter. This mentality is absolutely infuriating to me. How selfish and myopic do you have to be to allow something so clearly wrong simply because YOU won't be affected?

I don't mean to come down harshly on you, as I'm really talking about the general kind of person here, since this attitude gets thrown around constantly now-days. The idea of justifying clear violations against natural human rights (nebulous term, I know, but bear with me) because they can look around their neighborhood with a clear mind is intellectually lazy at best, and a damnation of moral decency at worst. How it affects you is very literally beside the point; it has nothing to do with the argument. What can be done, and what is being done is the issue at hand, not how far the tentacles have invaded your own bubble.

[Thug Bubbles]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I agree that widespread apathy is responsible for our current condition. But I really, honestly, do not see why I would be any worse off in a country completely RFID'ed. Apprehension of criminals would obviously approach a 100% success rate, so that seems like a plus. And I assume it will eventually be possible to monitor blood chemistry with these things, so the drug war would be auto-won, saving us $70BN a year. Not to mention the enormous conveniences of eliminating paper money, credit cards, and all forms of ID. And these results would all come from fairly mature technologies. Who knows what be possible within a few decades.

So clearly you must be thinking of a specific downside that would outweigh all those benefits, and outweigh them handily. But I don't know what it is, and am fascinated that it's so opaque to me. Please elaborate!

[/ QUOTE ]

The clear downside is the malicious use of the system that WILL happen if it's put in place, but I'd argue that you don't even have a case even if we presuppose a 0% abuse rate.

Forcing tracking systems onto unwilling participants before action has been committed (illegal/immoral or otherwise) is just wrong. It USED to be considered alarmist Science Fiction because the idea was so universally disgusting and incredulous, yet now we have large groups of people not only standing by in apathy, but even defending the notion.