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#22
08-23-2007, 03:44 AM
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Re: 10/20 stars, ACE HIGH CALL check me out
[ QUOTE ]
just shove so you dont kill yourself when he's bluffing with 22 [/ QUOTE ] pretty sure the ev of shoving out his bluffing hands that beat you is neutralized by the loss when he calls your shove with his retarded hand if not more making it an overall -ev play. 
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#23
08-23-2007, 04:15 AM
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Re: 10/20 stars, ACE HIGH CALL check me out
-ev
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#24
08-23-2007, 06:23 AM
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Re: 10/20 stars, ACE HIGH CALL check me out
[ QUOTE ]
I hate it vs. a random because randoms do weird things like show up with some crappy pair here. If this was against a decent reg I would like it much more (aside from the turn bet). And obv if you call turn you can't do much else but call river, unless you wanna shove I guess. [/ QUOTE ] I really don't get this mentality at all. Basically what you're saying is that a player becomes decent when they polarize their range so much to the point where it becomes much easier to play perfectly against them. Sometimes it actually is correct to make big bluffs with a pair (or better) and sometimes it just so happens that you get called by a bluff catcher that can't beat your bluff.
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#25
08-23-2007, 06:40 AM
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Re: 10/20 stars, ACE HIGH CALL check me out
your point is completely backwards. bluffing with bottom pair in a spot where you're not representing anything in a smallish pot is what causes your opponents to play perfect. if your bluffs are getting called by hands you beat then you're not making good bluffs. and just because one hand you beat calls you down doesn't make them good valuebets either.
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#27
08-23-2007, 07:04 AM
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Re: 10/20 stars, ACE HIGH CALL check me out
[ QUOTE ]
your point is completely backwards. bluffing with bottom pair in a spot where you're not representing anything in a smallish pot is what causes your opponents to play perfect. if your bluffs are getting called by hands you beat then you're not making good bluffs. and just because one hand you beat calls you down doesn't make them good valuebets either. [/ QUOTE ] My point was supposed to be that I disagreed with the notion that a solid reg will never turn a hand with weak showdown value (e.g. 22, AT, 99, 56) into a bluff in spots similar to these. Or as you obviously interpreted it, this specific hand. fwiw I also disagree that villain isn't repping anything here. He could easily turn up with a set/QJ here. Or bluffing with a better hand. I think people are assuming villain is going to auto-lead anything decent on the turn just because g-p checked behind on the flop and I'm sure villain is going to have a decent balance on that as well. I agree with you that when your bluff gets called by a worse hand, it's usually a bad bet. It's basically just a very subtle form of running good.
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