A very interesting spot-- 50nl

[yapee]

I think we can exclude combo draws from his possible holdings right now. He would play one more aggressively with an AF of 6 either because he knows what he is doing or because he is just hyper-active. That said almost only hands you lose to remain, so fold.

[ssdex]

the pot is too bloated to try and induce bluffs--- ie check calling is really bad--- leading is way better--- if you check and he bets imo you have to fold.

[threads13]

Thinking myself through it.

I think once he calls your preflop you are looking at 88+/AQ+. He could call the flop with a lot of that range, could he not?

I don't think you ever get a better hand to fold so if you are going move AI it is because you think he will call with TT-88.

Say you c/r the turn. He will have trouble as seeing your hand as much worse than TT so you really are in a bind. I don't think you want to check/fold though as he might be making this play with A-high if he thinks you are just getting frisky in blind def. I am getting to that I think you are ahead often enough at this point. I don't think you can fold, but I don't like betting the turn.

I like a turn c/r as he probably isn't going to fold anything that he bets the turn with and he may bet the turn pretty wide.

When you bet and he called the flop you were really put in a bad spot.

[suited77]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have a hand to protect. You can only bet here is you intend to call a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ssdex]

I think that floating and position are something a lot of people in this forum neglect or don't think is "as applicable" a concept as it is as msnl and higher---- however, villains that play these sort of styles are very privvy to these concepts and practice them more often then not---- since we have a history and a lot of action--- if villain is just flatting my 3bet with position, then he is going to float the flop wider then what people in this forum will give him credit for---- and even though he is aggressive---- he may not get frisky with draws in this spot for 150bb stacks---- although id expect a raise from AQ or a set

so during the hand I was under the impression that villain could float this flop pretty wide--- b/c my 3betting range is wider then most and he knows this---

b/c i considered his floating range here to be fairly wide--- I led, b/c I have more fold equity in leading then I do in c/r--- I really don't want villain to come along and if he called a 3bet with something like qj suited in position then i want him to dump it on the turn--- along with draws and midpairs--- both of which im ahead of

I think villain is perfectly capable of waiting until the turn to push his draw--- although all of us recognize this as pretty bad--- its hard to make urself make a big reraise with a bare flush draw on the flop in a 3bet pot

we all know a turn crai is a really strong line--- so does he---- so he may be shoving a draw here assuming he has some Fold equity by the strength of the line he chose to take

im not saying hes doing this with great frequency---- but my guess was he was doing it much larger then 1/4th the time--- i would say somewhere around 30% just b/c his line on that board doesn't make a lot of sense.

[ama0330]

cf the turn and stop trying to outplay the TAGs OOP

[XHitman014]

You seem to have a great read on the guy...have you caught him floating before? I play a similar style to villian but I would never, ever pull this move unless I recognized the other player as a very good player and was extremely familiar with his game. I'd have to catch him once to know he was capable.

This is starting to smell like FPS and could be a classic example of you thinking on level 4 and villian thinking on level 2. Maybe you made a great call or whatever but this cannot be +EV against all but the best NL50 villians.

[ryang]

[ QUOTE ]
cf the turn and stop trying to outplay the TAGs OOP

[/ QUOTE ]

[ssdex]

[ QUOTE ]
cf the turn and stop trying to outplay the TAGs OOP

[/ QUOTE ]

50nl is the nitty kitty game you are all used to anymore---- it is full of once prime 200nl players who realize they can beat nl50 close to as bad as they beat 200nl with 1/10th the risk and variance

higher level thinking is required in many situations and if you are c/f your entire 3betting range that is affected by the Q on the flop and a virtually blank turn--- then its somewhat of a leak

sure this time I may be wrong---- so i lose 150bb's if i call, but I dont think the turn play is bad and the call on the shove is probably marginally +ev

most people who are aggressive are used to getting played back at and they like playing a wide range of hands in position---- they float the flop with the intent of taking the pot away on the turn---- b/c of how powerful their line looks

this play is obviously miserable against an unknown or ur standard nl50 player

but this is a player who is a reg---- a thinking reg---- maybe not a great one---- and who is aggressive---- if you check he is stealing the turn with his entire range---- which is why you have to double barrel most of your range here---- then when he shoves you need to evaluate the line he took and come up with a list of holdings that he could play like this---- not just the obvious thinking--- god you must be beat, c/f turn comments ect

[traz]

If you're against checking the turn...fine, whatever. Maybe he's floating, or he has AK, or something. I can let that slide somewhat. But calling the raise is suicide